tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post954967394135839902..comments2024-01-19T04:32:25.260+11:00Comments on Ned Kelly : Death of the Legend: Glenrowan : Part Two : “this bloody armour"Deehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-63899160116404355432015-11-30T16:31:15.236+11:002015-11-30T16:31:15.236+11:00Seems to me that one of the important aspects of t...Seems to me that one of the important aspects of the Glenrowan siege has been constantly glossed over by Kelly supporters and that is the plan to derail the special police train. Had this been successful Kelly had apparently intended to kill any survivors. What the supporters either seem to have forgotten, or have chosen to deliberately ignore, is that the train not only carried police but other 'innocent' civilian passengers and crew. These included a number of journalists and at least, as I recall, 1 doctor. Why is there silence attached to this potential massacre of the innocents by the Kelly sycophants? The vision of this calamity would not have painted Ned in a very heroic light.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-91472925685124036482015-07-26T09:56:24.842+10:002015-07-26T09:56:24.842+10:00I remember reading in one of my many cat books how...I remember reading in one of my many cat books how the ancient Persians put live cats on their shields so that the Egyptian soldiers would not dare attack them. Folks have been shielding themselves (or others) from harm in one form or other for eons I suppose.<br /><br />Regarding Mrs. Jones and the lecture, It is a case of "he said, she said." Mrs Jones was adamant that she did not tell the prisoners in the Inn to wait for Ned to give the lecture even though several of the other prisoners swore she did. All of this is in the Jones Inquiry Board papers and can be chased up at leisure by those who would like to read it. Sharon Hollingsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11500349415203451928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-17015424481879433312015-07-26T05:29:12.776+10:002015-07-26T05:29:12.776+10:00Iron Outlaw recently dismissed a readers inquiry a...Iron Outlaw recently dismissed a readers inquiry about John Monash holding Neds horse at Jerilderie, calling it “ just another old wives tale” even though Monash himself was adamant that he did. No-one else on that site has disputed the claim that it was an old wives tale but I have read that it probably DID happen, not at the time of the Bank Robbery but when Ned Kelly was there selling stolen horses. John Monash’s memory was not perfect, because its clear he was away at boarding school at the time of the Bank Holdup. an interesting illustration of how memories become modified and intermingled with other things over time. Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-46886079403265555092015-07-26T05:16:47.476+10:002015-07-26T05:16:47.476+10:00I first remember the term “Human Shields” in relat...I first remember the term “Human Shields” in relation to protestors who went to Baghdad, deliberately putting themselves in harms way to try to discourage imminent US attacks and the start of the second Gulf War ( and lets not open THAT massive can of worms!) I agree that Ned Kellys original plan at Glenrowan probably didnt involve hostage taking, but it was definitely part of the plan at Euroa and Jerilderie and calling them human shields fits with the idea that retaliatory attacks may be discouraged by having innocent people in harms way. I think using a modern term like "human shields” makes it easier to appreciate the mad reality of what was happening there. But did Ann Jones REALLY call everyone back to the Inn or is that just another Kelly myth designed to get Ned off the hook?Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-4413192040570075812015-07-25T06:08:29.805+10:002015-07-25T06:08:29.805+10:00Dee is not the first to ever bring up about the &q...Dee is not the first to ever bring up about the "human shields" at Glenrowan (I checked the first page of results from google and some as far back as 2009/2010 were using the term) but she is the one who is most emphatic and who has used the term in several postings. <br /><br />When I think of human shields I think of people using them to hide behind to protect themselves from getting shot or bombed. But with the gang when they took hostages it seems to me that it was to make sure that no one went for help or contacted traps or let the cat out of the proverbial bag. (Ned letting Curnow go home was a major mistake and was his undoing) At the siege the gang initially went out on the verandah to engage the police, they did not have the prisoner's literally in front of them like we see modern day bank robbers do with hostages when facing cops. Remember the original (and heinous) plan was to wreck the train and then go out and mop up the survivors and the prisoners in the Inn would not have been in any danger if that had occurred. So, saying that Ned Kelly intended to use them as human shields is not quite with that line of thinking. The fact that they were in the Inn after the failed wreck and that police fired upon the place might make them human shields, as Johnno says they were victims of Kelly negligence, but it was clearly not Ned's original intention. Sharon Hollingsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11500349415203451928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-69166938069024113262015-07-23T05:35:54.478+10:002015-07-23T05:35:54.478+10:00Thanks Johno and Con. I had been wondering if the...Thanks Johno and Con. I had been wondering if they wanted to rob banks , why didnt they do it in the time honoured way of simply pulling a bandana up to hide their faces, riding up to the Bank, “sticking them up” and then in a few minutes galloping off into the sunset??<br />Why the need to take so many hostages, to bully and berate and terrify many of them? I concluded that they wanted to eliminate all risk to themselves as far as possible, by capturing police, scoping out the town and holding hostages as collateral should something get out of hand. I suspect part of the motivation was also a desire to impress everyone with their daring, and also to humiliate the authorities with a display designed to show the Gang could do whatever it pleased wherever and whenever it wanted to. There was also Ned Kellys desire to sell his story, but even that didnt require the charade that took place at Jerilderie. Sympathisers could have handed the letter in at a dozen different places. <br /><br />Their next exploit after Jerilderie showed the Gang had come to believe its own PR and arrogantly believed they could act with impunity, but Glenrowan was carelessly planned and a shambles in the execution.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-47478392598002027432015-07-23T00:13:38.553+10:002015-07-23T00:13:38.553+10:00Even in their choices of hostage-taking places, th...Even in their choices of hostage-taking places, the Gang headed for centres wellknown to them and not towns where residents were less familiar with them.<br /><br />Jarilderie was where stolen horses had often been unloaded. Glenrowan was where the Greta mob caroused.<br /><br />Not very adventurous were they?Connoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-53062069107810299872015-07-22T23:55:37.475+10:002015-07-22T23:55:37.475+10:00Dee, I think you are the first to talk of human sh...Dee, I think you are the first to talk of human shields in relation to the hostages at Euroa, Jerilderie and Glenrowan. In the Kelly literature, this is always downplayed as happenstance and as a sub-plot to the posturing and antics of the gang.<br /><br />As you say, when used as human shields, victims who were shot - whatever the circumstances - were victims of Kelly negligence. So far, there is little evidence that those hostages suffered trauma later. maybe more research will discover some.Johnnonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-87050603594252897712015-07-20T00:32:49.698+10:002015-07-20T00:32:49.698+10:00I may well be wrong, but I think Ned said the armo...I may well be wrong, but I think Ned said the armour had no leg protection because they would be firing from windows. But if this was the case, the gang's appearance on the veranda to confront police belied this. As well, Ned chose to wander around outside the Glenrowan Inn when he was shot in the legs, brouught down and captured. So the shortness of the armour was a major, disastrous mistake.Obviousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-72856927925242361332015-07-19T23:54:26.912+10:002015-07-19T23:54:26.912+10:00Talking about crackpots, whatever happened to Poof...Talking about crackpots, whatever happened to Pooflower who has vanished completely?<br /><br />(I think she was just another of the many fake personas used by the Nut).Missing Persons Unitnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-35894488746784640522015-07-19T23:31:44.936+10:002015-07-19T23:31:44.936+10:00Carrying on Sharon's thoughts, Ned hadn't ...Carrying on Sharon's thoughts, Ned hadn't needed to be home when Fitzpatrick called; or at Stringybark Creek; or at the bank robberies; or at Glenrowan. All were choices he made. All were bad choices.<br /><br />Ned reminds me of that comic-book Nut with the anti-book FB hatepage who, with appalling pompous arrogance calls himself "Ned Kelly" and uses the stolen State Library photo of Ned with coiffed hair the day before he was executed.<br /><br />Dee, don't hold your breath waiting for Part II. He is always short on facts because he can't 'get' the Ned legend.<br />John Hardynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-68974451997426336552015-07-19T16:23:55.598+10:002015-07-19T16:23:55.598+10:00Remember that time when someone had stolen Ned Kel...Remember that time when someone had stolen Ned Kelly's horse? Ned looked around at the lingerers on the verandah and said, "I'm going back to the bar. If that horse isn't back at that rail when I come out, what happened at Jerilderie is going to happen right here . . . right now!" Ned came out of the bar ten minutes later. Sure enough, the horse had been returned. No-one said anything. Ned mounted his horse and was about to ride off when up ran the local idiot. "Mr Kelly! Mr Kelly!" He cried out. "What happened at Jerilderie?" "I had to bloody well walk home," replied Ned.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-39789997370485888892015-07-18T14:11:17.574+10:002015-07-18T14:11:17.574+10:00Again, thanks for your input Sharon, as usual its ...Again, thanks for your input Sharon, as usual its right on the money. I think these details remind everyone of something about the Kelly story which is part of its fascination for everyone : the entire saga is really an awful tragedy from start to finish, but at so many places we can all see a moment where we all think “If only instead this had happened or that hadn’t happened, or a different decision had been made at that crucial moment...it would have all turned out differently, and perhaps happily for everyone instead of the sad way it did” And this applies equally to all sides of the story. Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-71656113680856248762015-07-18T08:49:35.723+10:002015-07-18T08:49:35.723+10:00Don't forget to mention that Ned Kelly told ev...Don't forget to mention that Ned Kelly told everyone that they could leave and go home since he figured that the police train was not coming because it was so late, but the Inn's landlady,. Mrs. Jones, allegedly told everyone that they must stay and listen to Ned give a lecture! In the midst of said lecture the train whistle was heard and the siege was about to begin. One can only wonder what would have happened if the townsfolk had been allowed to go when Ned said they could. Would some have gone straight home or would some have milled about the yard or the Inn chatting away like people do. Would the police or the Kellys have dared fired with civilians standing all around or would there have been more casualties? Also, don't forget that during the siege the "prisoners" in the Inn were again told by Dan Kelly that they were free to go but that they would probably be shot by the police if they attempted it. Remember how a white flag of truce that one of the prisoners put out the door promptly was fired upon? Not forgetting the firing on of the ones who actually tried to reach safety. Seems that the police made them prisoners in the Inn after a certain point. Still, I suppose it would be said in reply to all this that no one would have been in harm's way if not for NedSharon Hollingsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11500349415203451928noreply@blogger.com