tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post4935568671296324944..comments2024-01-19T04:32:25.260+11:00Comments on Ned Kelly : Death of the Legend: Dan goes to Gaol; Two Kelly Myths sink Deehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-82613264205980664762016-05-21T17:47:59.493+10:002016-05-21T17:47:59.493+10:00Big Thank you to Noeleen Lloyd, great grand-daught...Big Thank you to Noeleen Lloyd, great grand-daughter of Tom Lloyd who supplied the reference for the Court Appearances of her relation and his two cousins Dan Kelly and Jack Lloyd in the Goodman matter. She points out that McMenomys reference was CORRECT - and in my haste scrolling though I missed it on the October 20th O&M Noeleen also states she doesn’t defend their behaviour. She also mentions an article in the O&M from October 2nd which is an Editorial commenting on the news before it had gone to trial. I had seen it before, and read about it in A Short Life. Its almost worth a full discussion on a second post because its quite a clear example of the unbalanced way Ian Jones tells the story so that it promotes his view of the persecution of the kellys, thats not as clear when you look at the sources. Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-78648098099879693972016-05-19T13:25:55.251+10:002016-05-19T13:25:55.251+10:00Sharon and Spudee - I almost lost your comments an...Sharon and Spudee - I almost lost your comments and have reposted them from the copy that goes to the Blogs email address. Thanks for these two interesting comments. Greatly appreciated support.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-30897650116402793122016-05-17T18:37:02.509+10:002016-05-17T18:37:02.509+10:00Mark, I have just read an article on Psychology To...Mark, I have just read an article on Psychology Today "How to Tell a Sociopath from a Psychopath' https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath and it seems to me that Ned and many of his mates and family fitted comfortably into both definitions. But I must say I tend more toward the 'psycopath' label.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-39819918790014791212016-05-16T12:24:26.965+10:002016-05-16T12:24:26.965+10:00I strongly disagree with the psycho label though. ...I strongly disagree with the psycho label though. He was no more "psychotic" than Isiah Wright, Joe Byrne, Sherritt, Fitzpatrick, Brooke-Smith, Michael Ward. . His big failing though was an extremely large ego, an urge to show off and impress, to answer those who asked a show of strength from him. If any were going to be labelled with this, I would suggest one of the Quinns is more fitting. <br /><br />He was always larger than life. In Life and in death. Height, alexandrite eyes (Jones), good looks, strength, all contributed. He would have received lots of attention from the day Red died. And then he moved into the hornets nest at Greta to complete his "education". Mark Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162533821220639075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-72909082328822879622016-05-16T11:31:37.175+10:002016-05-16T11:31:37.175+10:00Mark I really appreciate your willingness to contr...Mark I really appreciate your willingness to contribute to the discussion. I am disappointed that so few others do outside the small group that have been supporting me all along even while not necessarily agreeing with me - or even hardly ever agreeing with me but thats fine, its the debate thats important. <br /><br />My thoughts on your comment above? I agree with you, they grew up in a pretty lawless environment with hopeless role models and poverty that was made lots worse by their own behaviour. But poverty was not all that uncommon, and neither were kids with only one parent, but as Morrissey shows the great majority of selectors had a tough time of it but eventually did Ok , and of course some like old Quinn and Whitty did very well. So I believe much too much is made of these facts of Ned Kellys life, and have to conclude a lot of it was peculiar to Neds own internal make-up. A psychopaths personality is born not made, but circumstances acting on such a personality, and on a strong handsome man can produce what we actually see in Ned Kelly - charismatic, reckless, superficially charming, grandiose ego...Ned was clearly the ring leader and prime energiser of the entire outbreak. All the other players were just hangers on who wouldn’t lift a finger to assist when he needed it, and once he was dead the Outbreak was over.<br /><br />So what chance did the Kelly boys have? Well they had choices like all of us...and once they made some really bad ones, like going to bail up the police at SBC the die was cast.<br /><br />My other thought is that having an understanding and even sympathy for the external circumstances and rotten luck that contribute to the desperate situations people end up in can never mean we should condone the bad things they end up doing. I don’t think its inconsistent to have sympathy for Ned Kelly but still regard him as a villain and a psychopathic killer. We should stop making excuses for him. He was a tragic figure in hat classical sense.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-51984388412752182972016-05-16T10:53:26.536+10:002016-05-16T10:53:26.536+10:00Dee. Hi. One thing that always plays on my mind...Dee. Hi. One thing that always plays on my mind is that Dan, Ned, Jim, Tom Lloyd etc were all just kids really. And I am not just talking about the Goodman incident. Stupid kids doing stupid things for a laugh or instructed to from those above. These guys obviously grew up in an environment of lawlessness with major influences from the likes of Wild Pat Quinn and others. What chance did they have? Was Ned ever taught about lifes etiquettes in his formative years? His Dad was gone at a young age and he was constantly around criminality. What chance did the Kelly boys have? Your thoughts on this? Mark Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162533821220639075noreply@blogger.com