tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post4796227676229808768..comments2024-01-19T04:32:25.260+11:00Comments on Ned Kelly : Death of the Legend: Think again about what Ned Kelly said in court Deehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-83331010326769852562018-03-22T10:13:55.613+11:002018-03-22T10:13:55.613+11:00Thanks for the vote of confidence Bob. Thumbs up...Thanks for the vote of confidence Bob. Thumbs up. Mark Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162533821220639075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-23355300945902784112018-03-21T15:03:23.011+11:002018-03-21T15:03:23.011+11:00OMG what a bunch of ill informed Johnny Come Latel...OMG what a bunch of ill informed Johnny Come Lately types you all are!! Insulting to family of ALL involved in the Kelly era, and simply passing on diatribe and rhetoric you have all read from books which always are slanted by someone's opinion. None of you have spoken to descendants, relatives, or locals on both sides whose ancestors were involved in the events at Greta and SBC. This blog is nothing more than a cesspit of self-deprecating so called experts who get great satisfaction from beating each other on the back and proclaiming how good you all are. I wonder why not one of the real Kelly era experts posts here? Oh no hang on. I think I know.. TTFNAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-82946445622124699662018-03-19T18:49:06.025+11:002018-03-19T18:49:06.025+11:00This blog is getting sillier by the day. In Novemb...This blog is getting sillier by the day. In November 1870 Ned Kelly was imprisoned for 3 months in Beechworth Gaol for assault and lewd behaviour for assaulting Jeremiah McCormack. In August 1871 Ned Kelly spent 18 months in the Gaol before being transferred to Pentridge. He was never a stonemason before then. He didn't learn stonemason trade in 3 months in 1870. If he was stonemason in 1871 he would not learn much in first 18 months with first 3 months of 3 year sentence in silent system isolation treatment. Then gravel breaking not stonemason training. Taminick Bailey's winery Ned Kelly story is good for gullible tourists. The winery says that around the time Ned Kelly was on the way to becoming infamous in the Glenrowan region, folklore has it that he was assisting the Bailey family to plant their first grapevines as a fencing contractor. All folklore, nothing more. And labourer and fencer, not stonemason. Only one lunatic on this page now.Cameronnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-19664087724567083452018-03-19T13:44:31.568+11:002018-03-19T13:44:31.568+11:00Ahh why don't you go talk to the owners of Bai...Ahh why don't you go talk to the owners of Baileys Winery and learn something for yourself. I have seen the proof, have you? Just another Johnny Come Lately Josh Verdana. Little knowledge, little evidence, just repeating century old lies and rhetoric. Ned Kelly also worked as a stonemason building the Mayday Hills lunatic asylum for a time as part of a work gang from the Beechworth Gaol. You don't seem to know too much.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-42709157297193138852018-03-18T21:51:50.373+11:002018-03-18T21:51:50.373+11:00You seem to be an extremely knowledgeable anonymou...You seem to be an extremely knowledgeable anonymous person, Anonymous. With a chisel and sandpaper, I can shape rocks too. Does that make me a stonemason?<br /><br />James Wallace was among those who helped with accommodation - maybe not feather beds - but comfortable enough. And he kept them supplied with nosh and grog.<br /><br />Hope you can supply details of Ned's employment at Baileys Winery at Taminick...Josh Verdananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-32809211344384205102018-03-18T19:31:58.514+11:002018-03-18T19:31:58.514+11:00With all due respect Josh Verdana rock shaping is ...With all due respect Josh Verdana rock shaping is stonemasonry. Ned also worked as a stonemason at Baileys Winery at Taminick. The evidence is still there. So many guesses and so little substance to most of what is said here. As for where they hid in the bush Josh, you will never know. Yes they did survive on food etc left in certain places for them but they certainly were not sleeping in a feather bed each night. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-6089510789291911342018-03-16T21:58:17.924+11:002018-03-16T21:58:17.924+11:00Harry Nunn asked me to take into PROV papers he th...Harry Nunn asked me to take into PROV papers he thought should be preserved. No missing Kelly documents of course, but mainly papers about how he managed to persuade Sir Rupert Hamer to start the Public Record Office. So far as I know the Kelly Collection is still in those slim green archival boxes, but after they were valued at $10.5M by Michael Ludgrove of Christies they have been under lock and key ever since.<br /><br />I don't know what comics Anonymous has been reading, but it was common for speeches from the scaffold, gallows, etc. When the hood was drawn down, as it was at Ned's execution, communications, in this instance, with the official witnesses, reporters and gaol doctor were no longer possible. The British Prime Minister sent out a memorandum to all colonies in 1880 suggesting improvements to execution procedures. No idea if these were implemented in time for NedHorrienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-35695444776406341562018-03-16T15:33:35.095+11:002018-03-16T15:33:35.095+11:00It is rare indeed that the words "Wrong"...It is rare indeed that the words "Wrong"and "Mark Perry"appear in the same sentence together. And I don't think I care for it. (wink..) Can I ask if you have read Stuart Dawsons paper Anon? If not, can I suggest you do so? As I stated earlier, I do not doubt Kelly said SUCH IS LIFE at some point during the process. But you know and I know and I think everyone knows, we were referring to his last words on the scaffold. Before the leaver is pulled. After he had left the condemned cell. And may I ask you details about this "book" or diary that documents Kellys last "öfficial" words as SUCH IS LIFE? I may have missed something in my 37 years of studying Kelly history possibly? Or maybe you have a private document that we are not privy to? I know that a lot of documents that should be there are not and this even dates back to Mr Nunns day when the Kelly collection was kept in several "cheese boxes" and obviously very difficult to keep track of. If you do have evidence of this, please share. Look forward to your feedback. You are also welcome to email me privately. Click on my name and I think my details appear. Cheers. And thank you. Mark. G. Perry. Adelaide. Mark Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162533821220639075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-49250662407504785152018-03-16T13:25:13.509+11:002018-03-16T13:25:13.509+11:00Mark Perry, I am sorry but you are wrong here. I s...Mark Perry, I am sorry but you are wrong here. I stated when and how a prisoner is observed prior to execution and the hourly watch of the prisoner. This is not fiction, it happened, and notes were kept in a book. A prisoner does not say his Official Last Words on the slab, he says them in his cell, in the presence of the governor, sherriff, priest, two guards, and that is all. Last words are not said on the slab. Ned's official last words were Such is Life, and I challenge you Mark Perry to prove otherwise. Any mumbled comment on the slab is unknown and purely speculation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-22862887085625575892018-03-16T05:29:07.351+11:002018-03-16T05:29:07.351+11:00Dee, it has long been surmised and agonized over i...Dee, it has long been surmised and agonized over in the Kelly world that the pertinent pages of Castieau's diary had been pilfered. But, in the introduction to "The Difficulties of my Position" Mark Finnane says this -<br /><br />"It is tempting to speculate that a diary might exist for the momentous year of 1880 in which Ned Kelly became the most famous inmate of Old Melbourne Gaol. Yet the erratic record of the single foolscap volume that includes entries from 1877-79 suggests Castieau had by that time weaned of the discipline required by his previous practice of daily entries."<br /><br />Hmm...it does seem strange that he would record all sorts of mundane things yet leave out any mention of possibly the biggest thing to ever happen at the gaol, doesn't it? Guess we will never know. <br /><br />Sharon Hollingsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11500349415203451928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-26502917239865262492018-03-15T21:33:20.396+11:002018-03-15T21:33:20.396+11:00Rock breaking and shaping rocks is hardly stone ma...Rock breaking and shaping rocks is hardly stone masonry other than of the most bland kind. I think Ian Jones may have suggested he was a stone mason at Williamstown but he wasn't.<br /><br />I said "the gang followed well established horse-stealing tracks in the bush" and survived in comfort on provisions supplied by family and sympathisers. I don't see any reason to change my view. Josh Verdananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-25026020117895973092018-03-15T16:24:03.746+11:002018-03-15T16:24:03.746+11:00Mark you know the most interesting and obscure thi...Mark you know the most interesting and obscure things! Have you got a photographic memory? But what a shame those pages are missing from that Diary. Stolen I guess...sad!<br />Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-40515311142103306882018-03-15T16:00:28.473+11:002018-03-15T16:00:28.473+11:00November 1880 is missing from Castieaus diaries. November 1880 is missing from Castieaus diaries. Mark Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162533821220639075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-48756097363747433192018-03-15T14:24:53.039+11:002018-03-15T14:24:53.039+11:00If you google the words Ned Kelly's Last Words...If you google the words Ned Kelly's Last Words Stuart Dawson you will find an article he wrote that goes into great depth as he attempts to sort out the puzzle of what Ned's last words actually were.<br />Regarding the gaol governor looking in on an hourly basis on condemned men, maybe he did, or would he maybe depend upon the warders who were on duty around the clock watching just outside the condemned cell to keep him informed and advised of anything he needed to know as he had the business of running the entire gaol to attend to? Not sure if Castieau mentions doing this for other prisoners in his diaries. Maybe someone who has read it in full can tell us. We do know that he did visit Ned a few times, even bringing along his son.Sharon Hollingsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11500349415203451928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-79824721269234605452018-03-14T13:23:37.004+11:002018-03-14T13:23:37.004+11:00Anon YOU are dead wrong about Neds last words bein...Anon YOU are dead wrong about Neds last words being SUCH IS LIFE. I have no doubt he said that in the execution process but it was NOT on the gallows. Good to read your contribution though. SUCH is LIFE are indeed good last words. And it has entered pulp culture. Bit they were not Edward Kellys.. Mark Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162533821220639075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-65380280543168502422018-03-14T07:03:26.376+11:002018-03-14T07:03:26.376+11:00Firstly Josh Verdana and Anon., Ned did learn some...Firstly Josh Verdana and Anon., Ned did learn some of his stonemasonry skills in prison. Prisoners were not only engaged in rock breaking they also shaped stone for various government projects. Ned also did obtain money from gold mining, both at Bullock Creek, which is where they were prior to the police killing at SBC, and in 1875 Ned worked the Prince of Wales Mine not far from Beechworth. Oh and by the way Anon., the Beechworth Gaol is made from granite not bluestone which is pretty obvious when you actually visit the place. And lastly their bushcraft is what helped them to survive in the bush. Great horsemanship, and the ability to navigate into and hide in very isolated places is what kept them on the run for as long as they were. They also built wooden and stone shelters to keep out of the weather.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-29676553140483665152018-03-14T06:50:26.532+11:002018-03-14T06:50:26.532+11:00Jason you are also dead wrong here. I have read wr...Jason you are also dead wrong here. I have read written accounts of prisoners under sentence of death being observed hourly and comments written in a diary or book as far back as 1862. The governor, and or the deputy governor would make hourly observations of the prisoner in his cell prior to execution. This was done to make sure the prisoner was not so agitated that they would attempt to take their life before the execution. In some cases executions were called forward and done hours earlier than the prescribed time for exactly that reason. This is why also there was never more than two days from the time of sentence to the time of execution except in unusual circumstances. Nothing fishy here. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-12852653205530974892018-03-13T19:51:09.988+11:002018-03-13T19:51:09.988+11:00what diary are you talking about? No such diary is...what diary are you talking about? No such diary is mentioned by Ian Jones. A gaol hangman's diary was discussed in the Herald ages ago http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/macabre-and-detailed-hangmans-journal-reproduced-in-detail-for-true-crime-scene/news-story/a98b17a1bc653a9f2e034ac32873781b?sv=c73ce64e6658e0bf838435a046bd3579<br />It began in 1892, not in Ned's time. The governor would not sit outside the condemned cell keeping an hourly diary of prisoner observations. This all sounds fishy. Jasonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-40609847674151119902018-03-13T09:53:58.511+11:002018-03-13T09:53:58.511+11:00Sorry Mark Perry you are dead wrong here. Ned Kell...Sorry Mark Perry you are dead wrong here. Ned Kelly's official last words were "Such is Life". He may have mumbled something on the trap but its inconsequential. When a prisoner is being prepared for execution, in his cell he is always asked by the Sherriff, who by the way conducts almost all of the procedures and processes leading up to an execution, if he has any last words to say. These last words are recorded in a diary which is kept for each prisoner on sentence of death. The official last words are written in said diary. The governor would be the person to keep the diary, and make hourly observations of the prisoner prior to the execution. Any mumbling, as said by Harry Oswald, is nothing more than that. An utterance or mumbled comment. Ned's official last words were 'Such is Life" and it is important to remember I said "Official". The utterance, describes as "Ah well...... is nothing more than speculation and guesswork, and is certainly NOT his "last words".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-31848689470813990032018-03-03T20:19:36.571+11:002018-03-03T20:19:36.571+11:00I'm with you on this one Mark. I am not sure h...I'm with you on this one Mark. I am not sure how the average condemned person behaves when he steps onto the trapdoor and has the noose put around his neck but by all accounts Ned Kelly was pretty staunch. Certainly the bravado which inspired him to argue the toss with Redmond Barry had deserted him.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-71428297873924061712018-03-03T20:03:22.775+11:002018-03-03T20:03:22.775+11:00Yeah, read it. So what? He didn't break down...Yeah, read it. So what? He didn't break down on the gallows and remained resolute. Every Kelly scholar worth their salt knows that Such is Life were not the final words...Do you really think looking pale equates to losing it? I think not. Mark Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162533821220639075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-89609975058591374342018-03-03T07:11:40.986+11:002018-03-03T07:11:40.986+11:00The same goes for his claimed stonemason skills. I...The same goes for his claimed stonemason skills. In Beechworth gaol the hard labourers broke chunks of bluestone rock into road gravel. The same in Pentridge. Pentridge employed skilled stonemasons from outside for building construction. Prisoners provided some gaol labour, carting and carrying, not stonemasonry. There is no way Ned learned stonemasonary in gaol and went bridge building, house building, etc. This is more Kelly myth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-29879814111771699062018-03-03T00:16:17.773+11:002018-03-03T00:16:17.773+11:00Haven't you read the blogs about what happened...Haven't you read the blogs about what happened on the scaffold, Mark. No speech. He went white and started mumbling something...Harry Oswaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-77649731593141567192018-03-03T00:09:31.910+11:002018-03-03T00:09:31.910+11:00I disagree with Mark about Ned's bushcraft ski...I disagree with Mark about Ned's bushcraft skills. These were concocted and embellished by Ian Jones. I think instead they were of a rather basic kind. My reading of less accepted books and articles is that the gang followed well established horse-stealing tracks in the bush. They may well have been skilled drovers. After Stringybark Creek they headed for Bungowanah, a place they knew was uninhabited, there to cross the Murray into NSW - but it was flooded and not crossable.<br /><br />The gang survived two years in the bush, but not on bush tucker and fossicking. Provisions were constantly delivered by Kelly family members and sympathisers. They were plentifully pampered with bread, fish and meat and liquor.<br /><br />Where is the bushcraft living in shelters, houses, and being supplied with food and grog?<br /><br />Ned may have been a great horseman but we do not really know. There were exhibitions of hoon riding at the bank robberies. Witnesses would have been unable to judge the quality of the horsemanshp.Josh Verdananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-39711781606797364592018-03-02T21:01:00.792+11:002018-03-02T21:01:00.792+11:00Thanks Mark I wish more people would THINK about t...Thanks Mark I wish more people would THINK about the Outbreak and not just parrot the same old stuff!<br /><br />But I still think it was always going to be hard to bring them in - and after the disaster at SBC that would make anyone hesitate before rushing in.<br /><br />The idea that Ned Kelly allowed the gang to get caught - my first thought was no way! - but others have said he just wanted it all to end, so you might be right even if it was a barely conscious decision by Ned Kelly, more like his decision was to let it play out to whatever conclusion was in store for them. He seemed to be unable to adapt when what unfolded was not what he had been imagining was going to happen for all those months on the run and while making the armour. I think the same thing happened at SBC - it went pear shaped but he couldn't think his way out of it.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.com