tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post2487213437358513358..comments2024-01-19T04:32:25.260+11:00Comments on Ned Kelly : Death of the Legend: The Greatest Kelly Myth : Part 4 1872 -1875Deehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-51384905368506224182017-02-17T22:53:36.795+11:002017-02-17T22:53:36.795+11:00Dee: Kelvyn's book is titled ""Ned K...Dee: Kelvyn's book is titled ""Ned Kelly: The Definitive Record". What part of that don't you and others understand?<br /><br />Its not definitive. At best, it is a partial record...<br /><br />But I acknowledge all the comments praising Kelvyn's books. <br /><br />Graham Boydnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-12577533449296110572017-02-17T22:02:42.312+11:002017-02-17T22:02:42.312+11:00Found this 2014 online article no-one else has men...Found this 2014 online article no-one else has mentioned:<br /><br />https://www.dubbophotonews.com.au/news/dubbo-weekender/columnists-opinion/item/3530-a-skewed-view-of-heroes-but-such-is-life<br /><br />Also - from the retired truck driver's FB hatepage against "The Kelly Gang Unmasked" book:<br /><br />Bob Mc G<br />6 January at 18:32<br />How different our history may have been. I was reading Kelvyn Gils 1st edition this morning and read how Ellen Kelly, Catherine & Jane Lloyd (my gg granny) and their children could have perished at Greta in January 1867 at the hands of James Kelly snr. He set fire to the old hotel that they were all staying in. I assume that Ned would have been one of those inside the hotel aged about 12 or 13. There may not have been SBC, Glenrowan etc, if he had died there. As I write this little supposition there woud be no yours truly either and none of my family either. Good luck and a Happy New Year to everyone in 2017 regards Bob.<br /><br />________________________<br />If Bob, who regularly posts on the FB hatesite, had bothered to read "The Kelly Gang Unmasked" book he would have found the whole story on p. 32 of the book way back in 2012.<br /><br />But it looks as if some of the Kelly extended descendants are starting to have second thoughts...<br /><br />About time!Jim Andersonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-25319778875282450792017-02-16T21:07:54.072+11:002017-02-16T21:07:54.072+11:00The best known persecution theorist is JJ Kenneall...The best known persecution theorist is JJ Kenneally, in his "Inner History of the Kelly Gang", who claims the Kellys were hounded at every step by the "loaded dice" of police victimisation. A quick glance at Kenneally shows how he has presented a "crook's own" view of every event. The Kelly boys weren't really horse thieves; it was the mysterious 'Billy-Jimmies". (Never mind that Ned, Jim and Dan were all gaoled over horses on evidence incontrovertible.) McCormack was the aggressor who tried to beat the horse-mounted Ned with a stick; Ned rode him down in self-defence! (But read the newspaper account of McCormack's testimony.) The best one is Ned's claim to have taken Kennedy's watch from his corpse so he could thoughtfully return it to his widow. Now that's a caring lad to be proud of; ought to be a national hero. (Don't mention shotgunning Kennedy's chest out.)Stuart Dawsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-10789747361710419842017-02-16T09:18:54.170+11:002017-02-16T09:18:54.170+11:00Graham I think ALL of us would like the WHOLE pict...Graham I think ALL of us would like the WHOLE picture but very few of us live close to the Public Records Office of Victoria or wherever else these things are all stored. But until all the other records are digitised and made available what Kelvyn has done is make much more accessible what admittedly is already available but only by laborious and time consuming searches. <br /><br />And yes, Stuart I WISH someone would try to make the case for Ned having been persecuted. Bill did mention his opinion about knowing people who were innocent but were picked on, and I wouldn't dispute that such people exist, or that Police may indeed harass and persecute people o occasion but where is the evidence that it happened in THIS case? Bills friend was innocent, but Ned was never innocent, and theres no evidence that any of his 'crimes' were fit-ups by Police.<br /><br />The Kelly apologists are deathly silent right now.....Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-74121527027913117432017-02-15T23:58:10.114+11:002017-02-15T23:58:10.114+11:00All I have said is that Kelvyn's records are i...All I have said is that Kelvyn's records are incomplete as I think he himself would acknowledge. Stuart and Spudee may be happy with this. I ain't! I wan't the WHOLE picture!Graham Boydnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-39743999172410727812017-02-15T14:07:00.499+11:002017-02-15T14:07:00.499+11:00I'm not quite sure what all this disputing is ...I'm not quite sure what all this disputing is about. Myself and Spudee have found it a useful resource and that's all either of us said. No one, including Dee, claimed it's comprehensive. Maybe people would like to comment on the actual post and topic at hand above, like me and Spudee have, and stop bagging Kelvyn? Use whatever resources you like, for goodness sake. But what do readers think about Dee's argument that the persecution claims reviewed so far are all or mostly empty nonsense? <br /><br />I haven't seen that tackled before, and unless someone can support the view with evidence that there are good reasons to support Ned's claims of persecution, the grounds for believing it are rapidly disappearing. This is why I think Dee has put up a new perspective here that hasn't been time-lined and worked through before, and that's why I think it adds a new way of looking at an old story that is very worthwhile. So I too am interested to see if she has overlooked some important evidence to the contrary. But the time-lining so far is pretty convincing that the persecution story is another longstanding historical myth. I have no barrow to push either way. I don't personally care if it's a myth or not; but I am very interested in the evidence for and against, because at this point Dee is winning hands down. And if it is a myth, then the historical story has to change to reflect that.Stuart Dawsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-48601005143679647872017-02-15T00:21:37.018+11:002017-02-15T00:21:37.018+11:00Not all of the Kelly records in the 'Kelly Col...Not all of the Kelly records in the 'Kelly Collection' were digitised by PROV. Many other records series including Kelly have never been digitised. Buyers of Kelvyn's works have at best a partial Kelly record. He would need dozens of volumes to record the lot.<br /><br />One man's view.Graham Boydnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-89254910569189948332017-02-14T23:59:58.682+11:002017-02-14T23:59:58.682+11:00That'd what I thought Spudee. But a part of a ...That'd what I thought Spudee. But a part of a part of the Kelly records ain't the whole story. The posts here have altered my view of Kelvyn a bit...John Carlylenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-62569540692107658852017-02-14T08:43:47.671+11:002017-02-14T08:43:47.671+11:00John, Kelvyn makes no comments at all in his volum...John, Kelvyn makes no comments at all in his volumes. He has simply collated as much material on the Kelly outbreak as possible. Most of it is from the PROV and newspaper reports of the time. He has also included details from many of the publications which have appeared over the years such as books and articles. His work is purely editorial compilation and a terrific research source.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-83282166169019183792017-02-14T01:04:51.579+11:002017-02-14T01:04:51.579+11:00Kelyvn is a Kelly crank whose comments on Dee'...Kelyvn is a Kelly crank whose comments on Dee's earlier forums were lengthy and misleading. He disputed Bill Denheld's SBC site. It is a huge wonder that his books, if as open and wide-ranging as reported here, haven't been violently attacked by the Kelly buffs. Maybe they don't want the truth whatever the source. You can get most of this stuff free from the PROV site anyway.John Carlylenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-39128321216639986742017-02-14T00:40:30.371+11:002017-02-14T00:40:30.371+11:00Kelvyn's volume/s are financially beyond most ...Kelvyn's volume/s are financially beyond most of us. I prefer the affordable MacFarlane and Morrissey versions which are interpretive and not just presentational. In saying so I haven't seen Kelvyn's commendable vols which, if I have understood correctly, just present some PROV general docs and additional material as the whole picture of the Kelly evidence. Obviously, this is not so as MacFarlane and Morrissey have so formidably demonstrated.Rob Knealenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-46088889043676431932017-02-13T13:20:24.097+11:002017-02-13T13:20:24.097+11:00Another thing to remember is that back in Victoria...Another thing to remember is that back in Victoria during the criminal activities of the Kelly's and their extended families is the fact that the majority of criminal charges were actually laid by the aggrieved civilian complainants and not the police. You will see this time and time again in material relating to the Kelly's. The police merely acted, usually making arrests, at the behest of the complainants and in turn the courts. This could hardly be described as 'police persecution'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-83701821358139200832017-02-13T08:51:45.722+11:002017-02-13T08:51:45.722+11:00Stuart is right about Kelvyn's volume/s. I ha...Stuart is right about Kelvyn's volume/s. I have the first print and it is my go-to for anything on this subject. I would suggest for anyone seriously studying the Kelly outbreak that if you buy just one good source, this is it. And like you Stuart, I am really enjoying Dee's on-going demolition of the Kelly fairy story. However, I must say that I am very disappointed that none of Ned's defenders has contributed arguments to counter what Dee is saying. But I supposed it is very difficult to defend the indefensible. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-4473401274473012582017-02-12T20:12:39.249+11:002017-02-12T20:12:39.249+11:00Dee, thanks for pointing out that the evidence for...Dee, thanks for pointing out that the evidence for all this is all coming from Kelvyn Gill's updated "Ned Kelly: The Definitive Record" sourcebook. I got this updated version recently and think it is well worth the money, especially for anyone who doesn't have the earlier "Historical Record" version. It will save Kelly enthusiasts many hours of Trove and other searching, and Kelvyn will not be making much profit out of it given the copying and professional book-binding costs for the 2 volumes. I still think it is essential to check all original primary sources oneself for accuracy when writing for publication, and who knows, there may be some things that are missed, but the scope of coverage is certainly the minimum coverage needed to claim reasonably familiarity with the source evidence. Using PROV online access is also essential, but a huge benefit of Kelvyn's volumes is the comprehensive cross-indexing of people's names to the source documents at the back of Volume Two. Truly a labour of love, accurate as far as I have used it, and absolutely valuable to trace people through the various historical events. <br /><br />This review of the persecution theory is going great guns, Dee, as you are highlighting a lot of events that are simply sidelined or totally ignored in the cutsey-Nedsy crap they keep putting in school history textbooks such as 'Humanities Alive'. What they do with the Kellys in schools is a bit like pretending to study WW2 without mentioning the holocaust. School textbook writers seem to be predominantly stuck in the 1970s and 1980s class war outlook of squatters vs selectors that Morrissey has shown to be exaggerated nonsense. And textbooks in general remain superficial, minimalist, and appallingly tedious regardless of their fancy layout and extra online resource links. (No wonder kids are bored silly in school.) But never let the facts get in the way of a good, biased pseudo-history indoctrination. Nothing to lose but our brains...Stuart Dawsonnoreply@blogger.com