tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post2278164511537825015..comments2024-01-19T04:32:25.260+11:00Comments on Ned Kelly : Death of the Legend: The George King MysteryDeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-10362589595029503482022-02-14T13:14:10.324+11:002022-02-14T13:14:10.324+11:00I'm really intreaged by this George King. My g...I'm really intreaged by this George King. My grandfather is James Haldane King and aparantly said he had grown up in the Kelly family. I don't know if George King was his father or not as there was no birth certificate at the time.. He did change his name to William Ryder and went in the ANZAC war for a short time in 1914. I did read this morning he was born in Seymour,he was always into horses and we believe he did something bad and took off to England, for sometime, got married, had kids and came back to Melb. I just had my DNA done so lm more than happy to share anything that may help put the pieces together..if we fit into the puzzleJulie Churchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-49144448842939179922018-09-25T01:14:54.941+10:002018-09-25T01:14:54.941+10:00The George King in the prison photo was my great-u...The George King in the prison photo was my great-uncle, a sailor born in London in 1851. He called himself George King (the name of his maternal grandfather)when in Australia and claimed to be American when he was, in fact, British. He adopted another name later in South America. I have inherited a letter from him claiming innocence of the horse-stealing charge for which he was imprisoned.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07202036167120134258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-26178453635995718592018-04-25T15:32:21.412+10:002018-04-25T15:32:21.412+10:00Thanks heaps for that comment, I think you might b...Thanks heaps for that comment, I think you might be on to something there. My potentially testable theory is that because George the horse stealer couldn't possibly have been the father of Ellen (King?) born in 1873, then her descendants will have different paternal genetics from the next two children Ellen gave birth to, as these were definitely fathers by "George King". On the other hand of all three of those children descendants have. similar paternal genetics, they were all fathered by the same George King and it couldn't have been the horse staler from NSW. So maybe it was your GK from Beechworth. As you say he was a more appropriate match, age wise. Much has been made of the age disparity but maybe thats a revisionist view based on a false assumption that the horse staler was the GK Ellen married. <br /><br />I hope we get some more ideas from readers to advance this suggestion of yours. <br /><br />Thanks again.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-73147108959685650232018-04-24T20:01:10.728+10:002018-04-24T20:01:10.728+10:00I own Gladstone House in Camp Street Beechworth an...I own Gladstone House in Camp Street Beechworth and have been researching the history of our house built in 1858. I have acquired the first conveyances and found that our land was the result of a sub-division in 1858. The 1865 conveyance sets out the details of the original 1858 sub-division and names the purchasers for each of the three smaller parcels of land. The purchaser of the land next door to Gladstone House was Mr George King.<br /><br />My neighbour who owns that house has been told this George King is the the man who married Mrs Kelly. This may be more likely as his age in 1858 would have to be old enough to purchase land and therefore by 1873, he would be more likely to be close in age to Mrs Kelly or potentially older.<br /><br />Unfortunately, the conveyance does not state what his occupation was. If this is the real George King, it eliminates the horse stealer as he was only 9 or 10 years old in 1858. This conclusively shows there was another person called George King living in Beechworth and may be the right man. Additionally, the rate books for the 1860's show that by the mid 1860's George King no longer owned this property and therefore would have been living elsewhere.jochathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05876166042130511895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-37764527860796945802018-04-04T11:27:35.144+10:002018-04-04T11:27:35.144+10:00Pull the other one Mark! It makes a “cuckoo” sound...Pull the other one Mark! It makes a “cuckoo” sound.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-24623111024713901432018-04-04T11:04:35.285+10:002018-04-04T11:04:35.285+10:00Fitzy is really person to do this. He is very goo...Fitzy is really person to do this. He is very good at this type of thing. <br />Mark Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162533821220639075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-76105265094250675072018-04-03T12:33:38.082+10:002018-04-03T12:33:38.082+10:00This anonymous person says Alice King was his/her ...This anonymous person says Alice King was his/her Grandmother.<br /><br />Alice had two children to a Mr Dawe- according to Corfield. In that case this anonymous persons mother must have been either Alices daughter Jean Kendal ( nee Dawe) , or the wife of her son John Dawe. <br /><br />He/She will have he same mitochondrial DNA as Leigh Olver IF this persons mother was Jean. But that gets us nowhere in sorting out the issue in question!<br /><br />The issue is did they both have the same GREAT grandfather - ie George King. If they did then the NSW prisoner George King was not the one Ellen married. What you would like genetic analysis to show is do Leigh and this anonymous person have enough non Kelly ( ie King) genetic material in common to be able to say they probably had the same great grandfather. I don't even know if thats possible but these days you never know. <br /><br />Just trying to clarify the situation before you get lost in the genetics Mark!Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-86120093777851706702018-04-03T11:54:35.670+10:002018-04-03T11:54:35.670+10:00Interesting Anon. Are you familiar with Leigh Olv...Interesting Anon. Are you familiar with Leigh Olver? I am more than happy to hear from you privately? Click on my name and you can grab my details? Cheers. Thanks. Mark Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162533821220639075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-56613656261831544572018-04-02T09:46:24.901+10:002018-04-02T09:46:24.901+10:00I am a direct decendant of Alice King ,she was my ...I am a direct decendant of Alice King ,she was my grandmother,no one ever asked me for my DNA and am happy to do so if asked. There are only 2 of her grand children left alive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-70877283187275111662018-01-27T00:43:54.041+11:002018-01-27T00:43:54.041+11:00Where are the 'writings of the descendants'...Where are the 'writings of the descendants' to be found? The huge problems is that the descendants never made themselves known or indicated they were prepared to share information. The obvious assumption was that, in their silence, they were unapproachable and not willing to share anything. That's what silence means.<br /><br />If they are in fact willing to share information and details, you should give an email address so that future authors and writers can contact descendants through an safe address that can pass on questions to the right descendant.<br /><br />Until that happens, I will think of you as a time-waster leading everyone nowhere.Kenneth davidsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-86850330781293336012018-01-26T09:06:51.705+11:002018-01-26T09:06:51.705+11:00All good Dave. Nothing wrong with having an opinio...All good Dave. Nothing wrong with having an opinion and being open to discussion about it. We are all wanting to find the truth. Nothing more or less. Darren Suttonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07079191956882662194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-76235659494222287042018-01-25T23:54:57.902+11:002018-01-25T23:54:57.902+11:00Thanks Darren and Sharon. I had a feeling a bit ag...Thanks Darren and Sharon. I had a feeling a bit ago that people here were showing some forbearance in not tipping me over earlier.<br /><br />Although conceding defeat, I am only 3/4 way through Morrissey's thesis. Prof Moloney's researcher broadly worked through many of the same archival records, but I could discover nothing confirmatory there today.Dave Blakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-49515157948256571052018-01-25T21:57:59.714+11:002018-01-25T21:57:59.714+11:00Ellen could neither read or write. Spoken word fro...Ellen could neither read or write. Spoken word from my long departed grandmother who as a young girl lived opposite Ellen Kelly. She told me many things about her but one was that she asked at one time for my grandmother to write a list for the store as she could not write at all.Darren Suttonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07079191956882662194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-31330646878963700902018-01-25T17:48:06.320+11:002018-01-25T17:48:06.320+11:00Yes, it looks like I'm going to have to pull m...Yes, it looks like I'm going to have to pull my head in. Ian Jones may well have been right. I'm not finding the confirmation I expected.In fact the opposite so far. McMenomy says Ellen was illiterate. Ellen signed her marriage certificate to John Kelly with her mark, and son Edward Kelly signed his Dad's death certificate.<br /><br />The record I thought I saw 20 years ago was a thin lands department file (obviously not the main file noted as missing in 1980). It was uninteresting and routine so I made no notes or got it photocopied. Silly me...Dave Blakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-42696463843896643662018-01-25T15:12:03.905+11:002018-01-25T15:12:03.905+11:00Isuppose you couldn't find out from the writin...Isuppose you couldn't find out from the writings of the descendents? Collaborative advantagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08381439210220425903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-14426955293550753572018-01-25T10:10:47.751+11:002018-01-25T10:10:47.751+11:00Just looked at Ellen's prison record over at t...Just looked at Ellen's prison record over at the PROV and it says -<br /><br />Read or Write - NEITHERSharon Hollingsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11500349415203451928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-16521104621541408082018-01-25T07:04:23.508+11:002018-01-25T07:04:23.508+11:00Anyone know where to find Ellen Kelly's prison...Anyone know where to find Ellen Kelly's prison record? That should say if she could read or write?Cameronnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-71604620892105438692018-01-24T23:55:01.479+11:002018-01-24T23:55:01.479+11:00Failed research into George King's Californian...Failed research into George King's Californian background took place last century before ANCESTRY and other genealogical aids came into place. I bet George could be 'found' now. C'mon Fitzy, you claim to be a 'genie' - get busy!<br /><br />I can't be bothered myself. I only want to know if he was a Californian horse thief as claimed in the pro-Kelly literature, and whether he ever returned to California.Josh Verdananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-75369000899466704572018-01-24T23:21:23.763+11:002018-01-24T23:21:23.763+11:00In the meantime, I found tonight in MacFarlane'...In the meantime, I found tonight in MacFarlane's "The Kelly Gang Unmasked" book (p. 45) that Victoria Police considered that Ellen Kelly could read and write well, citing the Greta Watch-house book 1870-1882 in the Victoria Police Historical collection (9). I assume the 9 in brackets is the page number.<br /><br />MacFaralne also notes Ellen fibbed about her age for the wedding certificate, reporting she was in her later thirties when she was actually in her forties.<br /><br />All this has nothing to do with the record I remember seeing 20-odd years ago. Dave Blakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-52492688288525638932018-01-24T19:22:02.369+11:002018-01-24T19:22:02.369+11:00I saw that 20 years ago and I don't want to mi...I saw that 20 years ago and I don't want to mislead you or others here until I have some sort of confirmation. I'm going through Morrissey's PhD thesis which is not indexed, and want to check a couple of books. But I will get back to you...Dave Blakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-32372131835636003802018-01-24T11:47:41.517+11:002018-01-24T11:47:41.517+11:00George King's role in the Kelly saga is shroud...George King's role in the Kelly saga is shrouded in mystery from start to finish. It seems there are myths and different versions of almost every part of Kelly history however on King there is very little excepting his mention in the Jerilderie letter. Of particular note is his abrupt and largely unexplained disappearance from the scene. Therein may lay another dark chapter in Kelly folklore that a good investigative journalist may yet uncover.<br /><br />Mike Jones.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-4247441226272229422018-01-24T11:36:07.590+11:002018-01-24T11:36:07.590+11:00Bob, I found the VPRS 4965 P2 Unit 4 item 177 docu...Bob, I found the VPRS 4965 P2 Unit 4 item 177 document at the PROV website. It is listed as being the "North Eastern List of Suspected Persons RE: Kellys Forwarded to the Lands Department." It has the Nicholson letter at the start of the documents and then has the full on list of suspected persons. There are 22 pages in the file in all. The part about Mrs Kelly and Williamson in full is -<br /><br />"With regard to the question of forfeiting the selection at Greta of Mrs Kelly alias King, I beg to share that this woman and her family have since they came to the North Eastern District lived by immorality and dishonesty. The house occupied by her up to the time of her conviction has now gone to decay and her family has moved to a house on an adjoining selection belonging to one Williamson. This man, together with Skillion, Mrs Kelly's son in law, is now undergoing a sentence in Pentridge. The forfeiture of Mrs Kelly's selection would of course prevent the family from returning to the old house but as it is so desirable that there should be a complete clearance of her family from this locality I would recommend the forfeiture of Williamson's selection also.."Sharon Hollingsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11500349415203451928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-57058322441306139492018-01-24T06:14:39.016+11:002018-01-24T06:14:39.016+11:00Why would George King give his place of birth as C...Why would George King give his place of birth as California to the registrar when he and Ellen were married if it were not true? Also, as Brian Stevenson reminded me, Ian Jones says that George signed a cross on the marriage certificate as noted above, but says that later that same day "he wrote his name with a flourish" on the birth registration for their daughter.Sharon Hollingsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11500349415203451928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-18047517061643351272018-01-23T23:40:13.491+11:002018-01-23T23:40:13.491+11:00Foxtel is flogging the Lawless series like a dead ...Foxtel is flogging the Lawless series like a dead horse. Saw an episode last evening about Ben Hall, repeated this morning. This reminded me that the forensic guy and lady historian from Adelaide were duds. Archaeologist Adam couldn't discover exactly where Hall had been shot but thought he had come close. I didn't.<br /><br />All this goes to show that if you have a respected front man like Mike Munro backed by a bunch of academic wafflers, you can still come up with a series idea that gets Foxtel backing.<br /><br />Dee, you liked aspects of the Lawless Ned Kelly show, but what sticks in my gullet is Leo Kennedy's craven acceptance of Adam's site where his great-grandpa had been killed. Although viewers were never was shown exactly where this had happened, Bill Denheld - the acknowledged SBC expect had previously shown Leo the correct place.<br /><br />Watching the Ben Hall repeats I couldn't help notice how a camera can affect interviews and experts alike.<br /><br />Australian politicians can suss a TV camera from 500 metres and go all gooey...Cam Westnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-30867108940702011752018-01-23T21:43:43.343+11:002018-01-23T21:43:43.343+11:00Thanks you Dave. Is the example of Ellen's wri...Thanks you Dave. Is the example of Ellen's writing on a publicly accessible document like a government file?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com