tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post1172156032859503974..comments2024-01-19T04:32:25.260+11:00Comments on Ned Kelly : Death of the Legend: IronOutlaw started 20 years ago Today!Deehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-11177079173125528572015-03-26T20:55:53.574+11:002015-03-26T20:55:53.574+11:00Suggesting that I am a Troll, if that is what you’...Suggesting that I am a Troll, if that is what you’re doing Anonymous, is just another form of personal attack. Truth, consistency, logic and fair play mean nothing to a Troll, but they are important to me, and while what I write may provoke, be controversial or upset people sometimes, that is a result of the argument not the intent of it. And besides, this is MY Blog - I do not post to or provoke or disrupt anyone else’s Blog, which is what Trolls do.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-84163398824810389522015-03-26T19:14:22.176+11:002015-03-26T19:14:22.176+11:00In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is ...In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[3] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[4]<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-82583047659217990712015-03-23T23:25:36.482+11:002015-03-23T23:25:36.482+11:00This Post of mine about IO is my contribution to t...This Post of mine about IO is my contribution to the reflection and review of its first twenty years, and I think my criticisms were valid. Instead of rubbishing me simply for making criticisms, I would rather people said exactly which criticism they disagree with, and why. Sharon, for example disagrees with lots that I write, she doesn’t sit on the fence but is an avowed Ned Devotee and sticks up for him, makes her point but she doesn’t bully people who don’t agree with her, and for this she has everyones affection and respect.But too often the IO owner, and ”Anonymous” and “Your worst Nightmare” above, on the other hand also disagree with me but instead of doing what Sharon does and gaining respect for having an opinion and the courage to defend it,they simply abuse me and threaten to make my life Hell. I am not going to attack you for having an opinion but for your behaviour, for being vulgar, for making threats, for Blackmail. I condemn that sort of behaviour in any person, no matter whose side they are on, and its one reason why I always condemned those Forum Jars, even though I defended the right of them to exist.<br /><br />And yes, I expect they will respond in the same feral way that they have been for years it would seem. Much of these disputes and revolting abuses mentioned above, and on ForumJar and NKF go back well before my time. I posted a few times to one or other of the forum Jars, but only as Dee. I have no idea if they are still running.As for what might be happening inside the secret NKF Members only area...who would know?<br /><br />I think we’ve all had our say now and should move on.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-64359095616174692902015-03-23T22:22:35.820+11:002015-03-23T22:22:35.820+11:00Shaz and Baz didn't touch Brad's death thr...Shaz and Baz didn't touch Brad's death threats, mentioned above by Ryan Peters and Biff Henderson with a bargepole. Why?<br /><br />They have their own agendas and hobby-horses. They both claim to be fencesitters about Ned, but the record is clear. Both are pro-Ned. Fair enough. But they need to address things like Brad's death threats if they want to be fair in this disruptiive 'debate'.Craig Nashnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-18658956952871744882015-03-23T21:47:49.343+11:002015-03-23T21:47:49.343+11:00I still burn with rage and hatred when I think of ...I still burn with rage and hatred when I think of how a prominent NKF member twice referred to Dr David as "Dr Josef Mengele", the abominable nazi war criminal who conducted live experiments at the Auschwitz Death Camp in WWII. They were by far the worst posts I ever saw on any forum anywhere. But then I remember the vile filth in three posts about a wife (and expelled former NKF member) posted on a forum in 2013. Only a real sicko could have thought that stuff up.<br /><br />Posts critical of NKF members have been rather tame by comparison.Tanianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-407134908995112962015-03-23T20:33:01.262+11:002015-03-23T20:33:01.262+11:00G A S P ! What the heck was THAT all about!G A S P ! What the heck was THAT all about!Mr Magoonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-47493606157986905882015-03-23T14:28:33.126+11:002015-03-23T14:28:33.126+11:00What a lovely thing to say Dee - thank you. It wou...What a lovely thing to say Dee - thank you. It would be a pleasure to continue the debate on this and further blogs. Brian McDonaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-85543399426413203232015-03-23T13:27:54.053+11:002015-03-23T13:27:54.053+11:00OK maybe now it will stay! I have no idea why they...OK maybe now it will stay! I have no idea why they suddenly were disappearing.<br /><br />Brian please, you need to remain in the debate. I read over the weekend stuff about you giving a talk entitled “Ned Kelly : Unravelling Fact from Fiction” I have also praised your article on Sharons site about finding books, and because of it I discovered Abe Books and have used the service this year three times to get me Kelly books that Ive been reading.<br /><br />There is much more I need to say to you, and to readers but I haven’t got time now. Thanks for contributing at last!Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-28714095518846344232015-03-23T13:21:01.018+11:002015-03-23T13:21:01.018+11:00Continued ...POSTED FOR BRIAN BY DEE
Forumjar was ...Continued ...POSTED FOR BRIAN BY DEE<br />Forumjar was started to promote Ian’s book and, unfortunately, it very quickly deteriorated into mud-slinging by anti-Kelly people calling themselves, Clem, Inspector Clousseau [sic], Bernice from Benalla, Fight you bast*rds!, etc, etc. The posts were abusive and derogatory in their nature and consequently deleted by Forumjar at the request of NKF members. There must have been some truth otherwise the proprietors of Forumjar would not have deleted them. So as you can see Dee, I am aware of all the proceedings of your involvement in the forums as I have most of them copied onto my hard drive. If the “kelly fanatics got it banned”, it was because of the comments made by the anti-Kelly fanatics actually.<br /><br />You state that, “bullying behaviour goes down very badly with me.” Don’t you think that this blog, “IronOutlaw started 20 years ago Today!” is bullying? The whole blog is scathing about the IronOutlaw site and the webmaster … and you don’t expect a nasty response such as “Your worst Nightmare”? Of course people are going to respond when people feel belittled or threatened … look how you responded to my post.<br /><br />You may not have “… EVER gone anywhere near the level of disgusting abuse that Kelly Fanatics …” however posters under anonymous names have levelled out disgusting abuse to “Kelly Fanatics” in Forumjar and in your “Ned Kelly : Death of the Legend” blog. And yes, I have offered to people with an opposite point-of-view “advice on how to behave” in both private e-mails and in the members’ section of NKF. I believe I am fair dinkum as I am not either pro or anti Ned Kelly but always look and weigh up both sides of the equation.<br /><br />You state that, “Not one person on that original Forum ever admonished the people who attacked me, not one person on the NKF has ever admonished the member who attacks me on his FB page …” If, like Dr David, you attack with all guns blazing (as seen by this post about IO) then bullets are going to be fired back. It comes down to who fires the first shot. <br /><br />You finish your attack on me by saying, “This is something you DO have to take sides on Brian I am afraid. If you are going to call out “zealous” methodology as you call it, you have to call it out EVERYWHERE you see it. Otherwise it just ends up looking like someones trying to shut me up on an insincere pretext, so the bullies can carry on attacking me, untroubled. How about a nice wee post on NKF telling the Bullies to clear off? You know who they are.” <br /><br />If you are sincere Dee, you would stop writing blogs that are going to provoke people and also stop the anonymous posts such as “Biff (shades of Back to the Future) Henderson” who says I “sound like one of those nuts who believe everything F,,zy says.”<br /><br />And to finish Dee (as I will not be making comments on any Kelly sites in the future) your use of words such as “intolerant and ill-informed bullies”, “Kelly Fanatics”, “hustlers”, “nut jobs on the Internet”, etc., etc., are not going to ingratiate you with these people … of course they are going to respond to your negativity! <br />Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-9742646526266821552015-03-23T13:19:46.752+11:002015-03-23T13:19:46.752+11:00Dee, you may notice it's gone again!!! Could y...Dee, you may notice it's gone again!!! Could you post from where I left off in the last post. Appreciate you doing this Dee.Brian McDonaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-6856967242648631632015-03-23T13:17:02.645+11:002015-03-23T13:17:02.645+11:00A Copy of every Comment gets forwarded to the Blog...A Copy of every Comment gets forwarded to the Bloggers Gmail address at the same time it gets Published on the Blog. Your second email was there Brian, but I cannot say why it didnt appear on the Blog as well, but can you please acknowledge that I have indeed posted the entire Text that you submitted. I don’t want anyone accusing me of censoring your Comments. Please don’t withdraw from the Debate : I will respond to your Comments later, and you will always have a right of reply.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-20381980434268146262015-03-23T13:16:54.247+11:002015-03-23T13:16:54.247+11:00Wow ... now something has really gone wrong ... th...Wow ... now something has really gone wrong ... the forum deleted the second part that you posted on my behalf!Brian McDonaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-13670823385666636542015-03-23T13:13:52.579+11:002015-03-23T13:13:52.579+11:00Many thanks for posting the second part for me Dee...Many thanks for posting the second part for me Dee and you may like to delete all my paragraph sections to make it easier for your readers to read.Brian McDonaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-83395577100033859682015-03-23T13:10:12.354+11:002015-03-23T13:10:12.354+11:00You state that, “Not one person on that original F...You state that, “Not one person on that original Forum ever admonished the people who attacked me, not one person on the NKF has ever admonished the member who attacks me on his FB page …” If, like Dr David, you attack with all guns blazing (as seen by this post about IO) then bullets are going to be fired back. It comes down to who fires the first shot. <br /><br />You finish your attack on me by saying, “This is something you DO have to take sides on Brian I am afraid. If you are going to call out “zealous” methodology as you call it, you have to call it out EVERYWHERE you see it. Otherwise it just ends up looking like someones trying to shut me up on an insincere pretext, so the bullies can carry on attacking me, untroubled. How about a nice wee post on NKF telling the Bullies to clear off? You know who they are.”Brian McDonaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-51688643452590825842015-03-23T13:07:02.689+11:002015-03-23T13:07:02.689+11:00Oops deleted again there must be some word that ro...Oops deleted again there must be some word that robots must think is a swear word ... I'll check it all again and continue to post in paragraphs<br /><br />You may not have “… EVER gone anywhere near the level of disgusting abuse that Kelly Fanatics …” however posters under anonymous names have levelled out disgusting abuse to “Kelly Fanatics” in Forumjar and in your “Ned Kelly : Death of the Legend” blog. And yes, I have offered to people with an opposite point-of-view “advice on how to behave” in both private e-mails and in the members’ section of NKF. I believe I am fair dinkum as I am not either pro or anti Ned Kelly but always look and weigh up both sides of the equation.Brian McDonaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-63312485649123058992015-03-23T12:58:27.867+11:002015-03-23T12:58:27.867+11:00You state that, “bullying behaviour goes down very...You state that, “bullying behaviour goes down very badly with me.” Don’t you think that this blog, “IronOutlaw started 20 years ago Today!” is bullying? The whole blog is scathing about the IronOutlaw site and the webmaster … and you don’t expect a nasty response such as “Your worst Nightmare”? Of course people are going to respond when people feel belittled or threatened … look how you responded to my post.Brian McDonaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-64288092628485655572015-03-23T12:57:57.742+11:002015-03-23T12:57:57.742+11:00Ive just come home for lunch. Brian be assured I h...Ive just come home for lunch. Brian be assured I have NOT deleted any post of yours, and wouldn’t. I am not sure whats happened but will investigate from this end right away. I am very pleased you’ve joined the debate, and I am sure others are as well. Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-24486825442767726562015-03-23T12:57:35.795+11:002015-03-23T12:57:35.795+11:00Okay Dee, I'll add my post paragraph by paragr...Okay Dee, I'll add my post paragraph by paragraph and you delete the sections you want. I would prefer, however, if you explain what it is that has caused you to delete the paragraph/s.<br /><br />Forumjar was started to promote Ian’s book and, unfortunately, it very quickly deteriorated into mud-slinging by anti-Kelly people calling themselves, Clem, Inspector Clousseau [sic], Bernice from Benalla, Fight you bast*rds!, etc, etc. The posts were abusive and derogatory in their nature and consequently deleted by Forumjar at the request of NKF members. There must have been some truth otherwise the proprietors of Forumjar would not have deleted them. So as you can see Dee, I am aware of all the proceedings of your involvement in the forums as I have most of them copied onto my hard drive. If the “kelly fanatics got it banned”, it was because of the comments made by the anti-Kelly fanatics actually.Brian McDonaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-83084648100613647062015-03-23T12:50:28.356+11:002015-03-23T12:50:28.356+11:00The second part of my post did not contain any abu...The second part of my post did not contain any abuse or unreasonable comments Dee, I presented the information I have firsthand knowledge of. Please let me know what has caused you to delete the second part 5 times in the last few minutes and I will try to rectify it and post again.Brian McDonaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-54657391580437709312015-03-23T12:38:18.411+11:002015-03-23T12:38:18.411+11:00Why do you keep deleting part two of my post Dee? ...Why do you keep deleting part two of my post Dee? Brian McDonaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-31861835839860992452015-03-23T11:54:00.033+11:002015-03-23T11:54:00.033+11:00I would like to address some of the issues that yo...I would like to address some of the issues that you and others have raised about my recent post. Firstly to Sharon, thank you again for your support and cordial comments, my respect for you and your thoughtful nature, not to mention your in-depth knowledge of the Kelly Gang, will always remain high.<br /><br />To Geoff, I do appreciate your comment too mate and I agree with you totally with regard to Dee’s knack of introducing new ways of interpreting questionable parts of the Kelly story. As I said in my post I have found some of Dee’s blogs very interesting and engaging.<br /><br />To Mark, thank you for our welcome and I do agree with you that this blog is important.<br /><br />To Biff, my post made no mention of IO or NKF, yes, my post was in support of what Sharon was saying with regard to leading by example. I do agree, however, that any website/blog/forum, either pro or con, is beneficial for gaining knowledge or an understanding of historical subjects.<br /><br />I did not accuse Dee of making comments about me Biff! If you read my post again you will see that I said, “Comments were made about me in one of your [meaning Dee’s] old forumjars …” and you ask for proof. It was posted by “Ned Bob Thu Feb 21 11:05:51 UTC 2013” when “Ned Bob” was suggesting a debate about “whether or not Stringybark was a fair fight” and he listed people for the “Sympathisers team.” He stated, “BrianMacD wouldnt want to be on their team because he likes to run with the hares and hunt with the hounds” [I have a full transcript of all comments from the commencement of this forumjar topic on Mon Nov 05 14:17:51 UTC 2012 to Thu Apr 25 15:17:58 UTC 2013 if you would like a copy for further proof Biff.]<br /><br />Dee, I’m sorry you took my comments to heart. What I was attempting to convey in my post is that there are extreme ends of both pro and anti beliefs or debate and more often than not the truth lies somewhere in the middle. <br /><br />I’ve watch this whole debate from the time Dr David joined the NKF to support Carla’s comments and his first sentence was, “I realise this post is about as likely to be well received as one to a Church Forum saying theres no God, but I wanted to add my voice to support Carlas defence of Ian MacFarlanes book.” The debate continued for some time until it was moved into the private members’ section of NKF on December 21, 2012 at 1:26 am. On December 22 a member posted that they had found a very damning comment about Ned on the Besieged documentary made by David (and he acknowledged it was by him.) David decided to call it quits on NKF on December 24, 2012 at 3:57 pm and finished with, “I wish you guys well for 2013.”<br /><br />To be continued as this comment section does not take more that 4,096 characters<br />Brian McDonaldnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-3685987604275437572015-03-22T22:56:40.325+11:002015-03-22T22:56:40.325+11:00This is terrific! None of us will ever agree with ...This is terrific! None of us will ever agree with everything any of us will write, but we are at least having a conversation, and again I thank everyone for contributing. I think long and hard about everything thats contributed, and appreciate the efforts people make to participate. Now, I don’t mind being criticised - I have been criticised and attacked a lot over the last year or so, so I am used to it. However what disappointed me was that a person - and I hate using names because I am talking about a principle really rather than the specific incident - was critical of me - and not entirely unreasonably I concede - yet hasn’t appeared to apply the same principle, or make a similar criticism of the far greater abuses and intolerable threats and vile posts and comments of the individuals to whom some of my frowned upon responses are directed. I firmly believe that sort of behaviour needs to be called out, exposed and condemned and I shall continue to do it. I may on occasion overstep the mark and I am happy to wear criticism for it, but in this age where internet bullying, misogyny and abuse is widely seen as a growing problem, where intimidation and violence is recognised as a national scandal, when the Australian of the Year is a woman appointed to campaign against domestic violence, then none of us should be silent wherever we see it or see it tolerated, or in my view at least, in some way even endorsed by the promotion of a violent life as iconic.<br /><br />But as I have said before my target audience is not the kelly Fanatic. My target audience is the interested and curious Internet surfer who wants to find out something about Ned Kelly and the Kelly Outbreak. I want to provide alternative sources of information and alternative points of view to such people, who otherwise at present only have IO and the NKF, places peopled as we have seen and as I will continue to point out and expose, by intolerant and ill-informed bullies. I don’t want curious people to be taken in by these hustlers, or to embrace their ideology of Ned because not only is their account of Ned Kelly as a hero and as an Icon grossly misrepresenting the historical truth about him, but included among what is promoted and paraded as admirable about him are behaviours and values with which I profoundly disagree. Violence, theft, lies murder and hostage taking should only ever be condemned as ways of solving problems, no matter what the problems may be and no matter how charismatic, colourful, strong and attractive may the personality of the perpetrator appear to be. Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-3203395134086055462015-03-21T14:47:05.269+11:002015-03-21T14:47:05.269+11:00This blog is important. It has made me think about...This blog is important. It has made me think about the Kelly story and question myself in the process. Shades of grey comes to mind. No man is either good or evil. Somewhere in the middle is where Ned sits. And this blog is helping me find that spot. <br /><br />I suggest Dee is like me and has a hard time turning the other cheek to threats, abuse, and the nasty stuff people don't have the guts to put their name to. I would come out fighting against that. How could you not? I agree though that the bigger picture needs to be kept at the forefront. <br /><br />I must admit though, I have found that difficult when Anonymous (surprise) accused me of wanting to see harm come to Fitzy. I had to respond as I don't work that way. EVER. I never wish harm on anyone. I have been told I am Matt Shores butt plug and an arse kisser basically. If being friends and respecting a bloke who has done as much for the Kelly Story, if not more, than anyone I know then consider your arse kissed Matt. Anyone putting their time, money, blood, sweat and tears and efforts where their mouth is to their lifes passion does it for me. And there should be no crap slinged because of it. We all have lots to contribute.<br /><br />But when the ming mongs mouth off again anonymously (and they will) I for one just can't let it wash over me. It's gutless. (Ned would be appalled too). Anyway, just my thoughts. And glad to see you here Brian Mac. And welcome back Sharon. And Dee? I'm not saying I agree with everything you have to say. And maybe we can all moderate our bombastic approach at times. But just don't let the ming mongs win... Mark Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162533821220639075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-13434278776215147522015-03-21T13:03:36.164+11:002015-03-21T13:03:36.164+11:00Sharon and Brian Mac have unsullied reputations as...Sharon and Brian Mac have unsullied reputations as Kellyana experts. I enjoy hearing their resarch and points of view, especially when they are so odten right. Dee has a knack of introducing new ways of interpreting questionable parts of the Kelly story. That is the most valuable thing about this blog. <br /><br />I am in favour of restricting comments to those about the blogs, and not extraneous matters that lead to disruptions like this. There are many still unexplored parts of the Kelly story that new research and commentary could probe. I'd rather be doing that. Geoffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-39639903764566933092015-03-21T07:50:56.464+11:002015-03-21T07:50:56.464+11:00Dee, please take what you perceive to be criticism...Dee, please take what you perceive to be criticism from Brianmac as a benevolent and kindly and loving admonition. He is trying to genuinely help you succeed in this new endeavor you have taken on. He didn't say any of what he said to hurt you or make you mad or defensive. (I have not been in touch with him regarding any of this, but I know this man's fine character quite well and know that he would never knowingly say something to hurt or embarrass anyone) He sees the situation in the same light that I do. He is not the enemy here, nor am I.<br />Dee, I hate to say it but sometimes you are your own worst enemy (I have been my own at times, too, so you are not alone!). I say this to wake you up to what your perceived enemies in the Kelly world (who shall remain nameless if not blameless) are doing and doing quite well it seems, they are just baiting you and stirring you up and you are playing right into their hands (and being cheered on by the anti-Ned faithfuls). Perhaps you are just too close to the situation and emotionally tied up in it to clearly see it. The more venom you spew at the ones who are giving you all the grief only drags you down to their level and makes a mockery of all the work you are trying to do here. Beat them at their game, present your findings and thoughts on the subject at hand and just totally ignore them no matter how heinous the attacks are. Let their reputations rise or fall on their own words and let yours do likewise. It will annoy them more if you don't appear to be bothered by their slanders. Heck, wear it like a badge of honor and smile! Be glad that they are against you because it must mean that you are hitting a nerve somewhere. Just don't gloat about it. You will notice that Bill and Carla and I have had tons of criticism thrown at us from both sides but we just keep on keeping on with what we are doing and don't stoop down to their level to duke it out. Awful untrue things have been said about all of us, things that I would have been embarrassed and ashamed if my husband or my dear departed mother were to have read. If you feel that you must always answer to these bullies and haters you will never get anything else accomplished because they vastly outnumber you and will keep you very busy constantly swatting at them so you cannot attend to your proper purpose here. It can get very tiring. Going on their forums and sites and telling them to please stop is a hopeless cause. Telling them from your pulpit here to go and sin no more is not gonna work. (maybe me begging you to get to your business at hand and drop the vengeful rhetoric won't work either) They won't stop. They can't seem to for some reason. God Himself only knows why, but there you have it. All the while people who come here to possibly seek truth about Ned Kelly, or some version of it, will be turned off and tune out (unless they are fight fans!)Sharon Hollingsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11500349415203451928noreply@blogger.com