tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post6289636968385263698..comments2024-01-19T04:32:25.260+11:00Comments on Ned Kelly : Death of the Legend: Mrs Scott : victim of a psychopathDeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-33007299912770459462018-06-08T19:45:29.942+10:002018-06-08T19:45:29.942+10:00But afterwards he openly admitted it was all a rus...But afterwards he openly admitted it was all a ruse whereas Mrs Scott apparently always stuck up for Kelly.Big difference.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-10709314878567206082018-06-06T21:23:48.861+10:002018-06-06T21:23:48.861+10:00Thanks Sharon I saw that as well. To my mind there...Thanks Sharon I saw that as well. To my mind there is something quite revolting about a person who is armed and threatening, who has absolute power over everyone there, who then puts on this act of politeness and charm towards people who are justifiably trembling and cowering in fear, even if they are doing their level best not to show it. When you abduct people at gunpoint and rob a bank, this act of superficial charm and politeness is really just making fun of your captives, mocking them in their powerlessness. Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-46177965813633862202018-06-06T10:55:18.204+10:002018-06-06T10:55:18.204+10:00Thomas Curnow went above and beyond too.. Maybe he...Thomas Curnow went above and beyond too.. Maybe he took a leaf from Susi's playbook. <br />Mark Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162533821220639075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-85152387650414493922018-06-06T05:23:27.386+10:002018-06-06T05:23:27.386+10:00Dee, there was this bit about Mrs. Scott's mot...Dee, there was this bit about Mrs. Scott's mother and her reaction to the Kelly visit. The "she rather liked it (after it was over)" bit is interesting. <br /><br />"Mrs. Scott's mother , Mrs. Calvert, had arrived on a visit - she was a very poor traveller and at that time was paying her first visit to the neighborhood. She was very fearful of coming from her quiet home on the Lodden, and when she was leaving a friend went to the buggy to say goodbye. She said "Goodbye, the next thing you will hear of me will be that I am in the hands of the Kellys." How many true words are spoken in jest!<br />Kelly then went into Mrs. Calvert's room. She immediately guessed who he was for the children had told her he was there. She, of course, felt very nervous, but he calmed her by saying : "Don't be frightened, nothing will happen to you. I have a mother of my own." But she was wonderfully brave, and the adventure did not seem to affect her at all - in fact, she rather liked it (after it was over) for it was a great source of conversation her sleepy hollow of a home town."Sharon Hollingsworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11500349415203451928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-89479641569699192472018-06-06T00:42:42.228+10:002018-06-06T00:42:42.228+10:00Dee, you are right that the Stockholm Creditbank r...Dee, you are right that the Stockholm Creditbank robbery took days to play out. But they weren't facing the Kelly Gang of police murderers.<br /><br />Times may vary according to the threat level. Susceptible people could fold more quickly. Was Mrs Scott one of them?Mr Tnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-62854839126364528992018-06-05T18:52:26.293+10:002018-06-05T18:52:26.293+10:00Hi Roy, apologies for the slip. Anyway, his articl...Hi Roy, apologies for the slip. Anyway, his article, "Ned Kelly – Stock Thief, Bank Robber, Murderer – Psychopath”, Psychiatry, Psychology and Law, 21.5 (2014), 716-46.", is an extremely detailed and thorough professional examination of the question. I guess a lot of people might not have read it, as it's in a journal where you need to have academic library access to get it online. But a determined interested person could put it on their things to do list and hike off to a uni library one day. You can see which libraries have it by looking up the journal name in Trove. Stuart Dawsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-23955110559884336192018-06-05T18:20:23.418+10:002018-06-05T18:20:23.418+10:00A slight correction Stuart. Dr Scott is a forensic...A slight correction Stuart. Dr Scott is a forensic psychiatrist...Roynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-20877694489573865002018-06-05T13:11:08.767+10:002018-06-05T13:11:08.767+10:00Thanks Stuart, I havent read Mrs Scotts memoir but...Thanks Stuart, I havent read Mrs Scotts memoir but would very much like to, so I am relying on what other people quote from it. Her comment about trouble and discomfort is about the entire hold-up - but nobody has quoted her saying anything but nice things about Ned Kelly. Of course no argument ever has only one side - but I could only accept a case for Mrs Scott being a wiley vixen who tried to placate Ned Kelly if she had dropped the tactic once it was all over - but she didnt. And she didnt just co-operate with Kelly during the raid ; she went 'above and beyond'. <br /><br />My point is that the story of Mrs Scott and Ned Kelly matches almost perfectly the known technique of, and responses to a psychopath, and it explains everything about her behaviour during and after the robbery, whereas the alternative view, as McQuitlon says, renders it 'curious'. It doesnt explain why she went 'above and beyond' , why she didnt EVER criticise Ned, why, well after the raid she continued to make all these assertions about him being a good son and a great soldier on the basis of an afternoon encounter, why it didnt seem to concern her that Kelly left her son howling in terror and her maid fainting in fear, and why she later apparently used the example of Ned Kelly to put 'rude' people in their place. Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-89231461599277719792018-06-05T11:49:37.624+10:002018-06-05T11:49:37.624+10:00But Dee, Mrs Scott begins her memoir by saying “Th...But Dee, Mrs Scott begins her memoir by saying “This account is related by an eye witness who went to through the troubles and discomfort of a visit from them [the Kelly gang] and the shattering of nerves which followed.” I'm not denying NK was a psychopath - the article by very experienced forensic psychologist Dr Russ Scott puts that beyond any doubt - and I think you are right in questioning the Stockholm Syndrome explanation which I had thought was right up till today when you have explained it in detail. But the two things possibly in dispute are whether NK was rude to Mrs Scott,, which he was not; and no one here so far has said NK was not a violent murderer or that Mrs Scott did not recognise that. It's his behaviour that afternoon that is the question here. We know Steve Hart or one of them anyway followed the carts on horseback, and waved his revolver menacingly when she turned to look back. so it wasn't a picnic for her. I used to work at a pub and the manager there was stuck up one day while at the bank with the day's takings, which he handed the bag over as they robbed him and others and the bank. He was a bit shaken up but said basically what can you do, just do what they say. I still think Mrs Scott did the best she could, and conducted herself remarkably well in the circumstances from what I've read so far. Happy to be corrected as always, I have no barrow to push.Stuart Dawsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-28775971455907795962018-06-05T10:36:49.663+10:002018-06-05T10:36:49.663+10:00Its the psychopaths 'MO' to find vulnerabl...Its the psychopaths 'MO' to find vulnerable people and manipulate them with charm and flattery, smiles and fake pleasantries, lies, whatever it takes to get what they want from them. The situation with Mrs Scott match that scenario perfectly. Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-226467596524409702018-06-05T09:56:10.255+10:002018-06-05T09:56:10.255+10:00“Rude people” are worse than a flattering mass mur...“Rude people” are worse than a flattering mass murderer, liar, robber and violent thug?<br /><br />Really Mrs Scott?Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-68547975818124717382018-06-05T09:48:46.707+10:002018-06-05T09:48:46.707+10:00Yes thats the standard explanation for her behavio...Yes thats the standard explanation for her behaviour but I disagree, because if what she was doing at the time was purely a survival tactic, after it was all over she would have said so, and explained her behaviour in that way. But instead she didnt appear in the least interested in EVER condemning Kelly, and in fact wrote about him. She appears to have published her assessments of Ned Kelly and of the robbery, and all of them were laudatory - as far as I know she never said a word against Kelly, and as has been pointed out, admonished her own maid and later on she compared people who were rude unfavourably with Ned Kelly. <br /><br />Seriously - how shallow must someone be to think that thier assessment of his character, based on the way he treated her over a few hours one afternoon completely negated the overwhelming evidence of his known acts of criminal violence, his murders and the threats he was making all day long?<br /><br />This is EXACTLY the effect psychopaths have on people - the force of their personality overwhelms the better judgement of their target and they end up doing and believing things that go against every rational and logical thought they ever had. Its in the papers every day! <br /><br />Wake up guys!Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-80236227449644032002018-06-05T09:41:20.050+10:002018-06-05T09:41:20.050+10:00In fact, I would suggest Mrs Scott grasped the sit...In fact, I would suggest Mrs Scott grasped the situation they were in quicker and more masterfully than anyone present that day at Euroa and Faithfuls Creek. . And she acted accordingly. AND the presentation from the Gang obviously impressed her. Why wouldn't it? Ned designed it to do exactly that. Mark Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162533821220639075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-14397519327772265612018-06-05T09:37:20.343+10:002018-06-05T09:37:20.343+10:00Well said Stuart. That was my take on Mrs Scotts...Well said Stuart. That was my take on Mrs Scotts behaviour too. She used flattery to try and control things a bit and look after her family. Obviously, she was no dummy. And she also didn't see the dirty, rough ruffians the papers made them out to be. An effort at great marketing from Mr Kelly worked to a point. And thus in a way, it was more a victory for the Gang than the money. Mark Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162533821220639075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-79381480719166721082018-06-05T07:57:00.879+10:002018-06-05T07:57:00.879+10:00Mrs Scott wore her new dress because she said she ...Mrs Scott wore her new dress because she said she thought it was going to be her last day on earth, not because she was flirting with Kelly. She flattered him to stay alive and to protect her husband and children. He behaved towards her in a gentlemanly way and she said so to him. He did not abuse her, and she said to him that he did not appear to her as he had been represented (as a violent lunatic). He and the boys were dressed up in suits, not like the scruffy larrikins she would have expected if she had known they were coming. He used no bad language to her, said her husband - OK, but we have not the context of that answer in the later court evidence, as to what was asked. She was in fear of her life, and I think the "flattery" and rapport talked about is exaggerated from its context to make her appear as an adorer of Kelly. She would not have a bad word spoken about his behaviour to her, because (apart from holding them all at gunpoint) he did not behave badly to her in the sense normally understood, e.g. swearing and violently threatening. She never said it was a good experience and would love to relive it, did she? It was hell seeing her husband stuck up and the family and nurse intimidated at gunpoint. She did the best she could. Give her a break, and don't make her a Kelly sympathiser.Stuart Dawsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-77982730471710913422018-06-05T06:41:15.748+10:002018-06-05T06:41:15.748+10:00Almost... but not exactly - this was an instantan...Almost... but not exactly - this was an instantaneous reaction to Ned Kellys charm whereas Stockholm syndrome describes a bond that develops over several days between captive and captor. So I think it was just the charm offensive in top gear that bowled her over. Theres nothing at all rational or balanced or reasonable about her behaviour - telling off the poor maid, dressing to kill, chatting and flirting with Kelly....Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-88886791270258236802018-06-04T18:36:07.382+10:002018-06-04T18:36:07.382+10:00Agree, Mr T!
Stockholm Syndrome is feelings of tr...Agree, Mr T!<br /><br />Stockholm Syndrome is feelings of trust or affection felt in many cases of kidnapping or hostage-taking by a victim towards a captor.<br /><br />Harry Nunn's history of NAB gives bank documents about the robbery, but I think Mrs Scott gave later interviews that re-presented her 'romantic' inclinations...Cam Westnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-3667967594804049862018-06-03T23:41:04.220+10:002018-06-03T23:41:04.220+10:00That's the first thought that came into my hea...That's the first thought that came into my head too: Stockholm syndrome - 'feelings of trust or affection felt in many cases of kidnapping or hostage-taking by a victim towards a captor'.<br /><br />Harry Nunn's NAB history gives some additional details of the Euroa bank robbery, but he wisely resisted any commentary about Mrs Scott. There are a few later articles about her so-called support for Ned that can be safely ignored as "wobbly at best".Roynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-67657546482021701742018-06-03T17:56:26.435+10:002018-06-03T17:56:26.435+10:00Stockholm syndrome...Stockholm syndrome...Mt Tnoreply@blogger.com