tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post5091078425899275833..comments2024-01-19T04:32:25.260+11:00Comments on Ned Kelly : Death of the Legend: Will John Delaney be remembered at the Siege Dinner?Deehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-17119899435224563062018-06-21T13:38:32.269+10:002018-06-21T13:38:32.269+10:00I don't hold the Fitzsimons book in very high ...I don't hold the Fitzsimons book in very high regard. <br />Mark Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162533821220639075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-50315978318538276102018-06-20T21:09:12.115+10:002018-06-20T21:09:12.115+10:00Got it, Mark! Also agree with Dee (& Stuart). ...Got it, Mark! Also agree with Dee (& Stuart). I had expected a response to the recent books and Stuart's papers by now. It is uncharacteristic of the believers to remain silent this long. (The FitzSimmons book was decisively nonacademic, and doesn't count)Roynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-9408914554369525242018-06-20T20:25:14.452+10:002018-06-20T20:25:14.452+10:00Yes Mark youre right that "we" will neve...Yes Mark youre right that "we" will never fully prevail. Thats because as you and Stuart both say, for believers in myth, facts are irrelevant. Thats why all kinds of mad religions exist and why there are people who still think the earth is the centre of the universe and the earth is flat, that the Twin Towers disaster was a CIA plot, the moon landing s were faked and L Ron Hubbard was a visionary, that Dan Kelly is buried in Queensland...and so on and so on. <br /><br />The reality is that not everyone understands or cares about logic, about rational argument, about reason and facts, and there will never be a time when everyone does, and so there will always be believers in non-rational explanations of things and of history. So yes, in that sense the Kelly mythology will always be with us, but as is already evident, the core believers are already a shrinking tiny minority and the shrinking will continue. NO way is there even now ' a large brigade ' of Kelly believers. All the evidence of whats happening on the Facebook pages and internet places of kelly supporters shows that they are disappearing, or falling silent - no doubt about it!<br /><br />New generations learning about Ned Kelly for the first time may well find him fascinating and interesting, but they wont have the wool pulled over their eyes by the Kelly myth-makers who are now in serious decline. Instead they may well learn about the myth, but they will also learn the facts, and if theyre logical and rational folk, they will follow reason to its logical conclusion.Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-86022356007056717162018-06-20T19:52:33.100+10:002018-06-20T19:52:33.100+10:00Not to mention that quoting Fitzsimmons book is al...Not to mention that quoting Fitzsimmons book is all good and well but I throughly everyone knew it was NOT historically correct. An author penning such a story has to realise that you only need to get one detail incorrect an you cast a shadow on the entire work.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07738129121891245898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-24433918426010178152018-06-20T11:10:47.385+10:002018-06-20T11:10:47.385+10:00No, I am not saying that at all Roy. I am saying ...No, I am not saying that at all Roy. I am saying that the brand, the logo, the image, is too strong to be fully defeated. No matter how many facts come to light or unpalatable truths proven, there will still be a very large brigade of those that will never hear it. The helmet and the bearded execution pic of Ned have transcended history . They have become a commodity. This is why you, Dee, Stuart and me to a degree even, will never fully prevail. Mark Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162533821220639075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-16170417484924029462018-06-19T21:52:07.508+10:002018-06-19T21:52:07.508+10:00Maybe that's the thing about myth, that facts ...Maybe that's the thing about myth, that facts don't matter. But on the other hand maybe there is a point where the facts are so overwhelming that a piece of myth is crushed beyond all repair. It is impossible for anyone who read my "Redeeming Fitzpatrick" article to still say that his testimony was lies, simply because it has been fairly well corroborated. People can still say they don't like him for various reasons, but they can't say his testimony doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Now supposing it was shown that there are no grounds to believe that Ned and the boys ever had a thought about starting a republic. Not just because there is no documentary support for the idea, but because the claimed oral history is also full of contradictions and doesn't add up. I wonder how many people would continue to believe it was somehow true, even if it became historically clear that it wasn't.Stuart Dawsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-16824024148924353402018-06-19T19:58:15.113+10:002018-06-19T19:58:15.113+10:00What you seem to be saying, Mark, is that the Ned ...What you seem to be saying, Mark, is that the Ned Kelly brand is impervious to facts, and relies on invented fiction. Not a good look.Roynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-26421505172456941022018-06-19T12:03:43.424+10:002018-06-19T12:03:43.424+10:00Negligent Ned and Bad Ned he may be. But Metcalf ...Negligent Ned and Bad Ned he may be. But Metcalf and Delaney will still not be getting a mention at the dinner. It's all about the logo and the iconography. When will you guys get that? Because of the Helmet logo and the silhouette if you like, Ned Kelly is never going to go away. Simple. Fact. Mark Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162533821220639075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-23630466032812137622018-06-19T12:00:58.557+10:002018-06-19T12:00:58.557+10:00Don't you see a difference Anonymous? That...Don't you see a difference Anonymous? That's quite odd that you don't. The Glenrowan Siege is a significant event in Australian History. Like Eureka. Gallipoli. Burke and Wills. The question should be "Why would you NOT commemorate it"??? (and these milestones in Australian history all represent failure in a way when you think about it too. Wonder what that says about us as a nation?) Mark Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162533821220639075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-11983673428103188322018-06-19T07:57:08.655+10:002018-06-19T07:57:08.655+10:00Hi Roy, can I just put in a plug for my article, &...Hi Roy, can I just put in a plug for my article, "Ned Kelly's shooting of George Metcalf, labourer", free to download from the Monash Uni website if anyone hasn't seen it. Find it by Googling the title. It shows in great detail how a couple of well-known historians went out of their way to distort, twist and pervert the historical evidence so as to blame the police for Metcalf's injury, when it is well attested by several witnesses to have been caused by Ned Kelly, as you said, fiddling with someone's revolver. It's hard to believe some of the Kelly fans don't want to accept well documented historical facts when they are dug out and presented to them, but prefer to keep on believing fairy stories about Saint Ned. It shows they are not interested in Australian history but in some kind of weird cult. Such is life.Stuart Dawsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-70988996475482914982018-06-18T23:34:44.388+10:002018-06-18T23:34:44.388+10:00I bet poor old Metcalf won't get a mention eit...I bet poor old Metcalf won't get a mention either. He was the fellow Ned shot in the eye as he was fiddling with Piuzzi's revolver before the siege had begun.<br /><br />Negligent Ned.Roynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-91264848382848933702018-06-18T13:58:10.286+10:002018-06-18T13:58:10.286+10:00Considering the siege dinner is a fundraiser for a...Considering the siege dinner is a fundraiser for a monument to a triple murderer and attempted train massacre psychopath it is the one place I will not be going that night. Those idiots aren't going to have a Lindt café killer dinner are they? I can't see any difference at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-31558776712690667612018-06-18T10:39:11.609+10:002018-06-18T10:39:11.609+10:00Of course Delaney will not get a mention at the Si...Of course Delaney will not get a mention at the Siege Dinner. However, the siege itself is one of Australias historic moments. Hence the event being held. Arthur, Gascoigne, Dwyer, Reynolds, Mortimer, McAuliffe won't get a mention either. Mark Perryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05162533821220639075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-88933453881764638212018-06-18T00:06:32.775+10:002018-06-18T00:06:32.775+10:00It’s not always about the Kellys. In this instance...It’s not always about the Kellys. In this instance it may very well be. We’re forgetting it’s a fund raiser under the umbrella of the long lost and forgotten siege dinners; clever move on behalf of the organizers. Some will be attending to put names to faces, foes sizing one another and above all friends catching up for a drink or two. Who knows I might end up meeting you there Dee. Wouldn’t that be special? <br />On a serious note I’ll have to agree with you. Why bother celebrating that horrible event. F*#k sake the poor souls of those that perished won’t be amused, nor will the 3 slain troopers and their families. The attendees need raise a glass to each of the lost souls, and a prayer wouldn’t hurt either. <br />Amen and God bless you all. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com