tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post1571559021606728009..comments2024-01-19T04:32:25.260+11:00Comments on Ned Kelly : Death of the Legend: Book Review : "Ned Kelly Iron Outlaw " by Brad WebbDeehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comBlogger59125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-59310772768030670622017-07-27T23:49:21.808+10:002017-07-27T23:49:21.808+10:00Book buyers will remember Mr Webb as the biggest n...Book buyers will remember Mr Webb as the biggest non-contributor to the Ned story ever.<br /><br />Silly fellow!Phil Philandernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-4644723928781314842017-07-27T21:18:17.642+10:002017-07-27T21:18:17.642+10:00Thanks Horrie
B. T and T. RyanThanks Horrie<br /><br />B. T and T. RyanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-19261051019372674372017-07-27T12:18:26.273+10:002017-07-27T12:18:26.273+10:00The Quinns went to Glenmore in the King Valley and...The Quinns went to Glenmore in the King Valley and had a peacock as a watchdog. The police erected a station nearby to keep an eye on them.<br /><br />Thanks for sharing all that info with us. Appreciated by all I should think. Best regards!Horrienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-91840063253929515872017-07-25T23:12:47.916+10:002017-07-25T23:12:47.916+10:00Cagey- We actually think that we are being brave p...Cagey- We actually think that we are being brave posting on this site as we are very selective if we disclose anything about our research or small link to this period of Australia's past. Some people really do not like this whole subject. There are a couple of Joseph Ryan's grandchildren still living, and they never met him, though knew his partner as a grandmother. Selected information, only, was presented to the family about Joseph Ryan, under his direction before he past. It was only that a grandchild of his saw a picture of Joseph Ryan in a "Kelly History book" and worked it out and approached Joseph's second youngest son who reluctantly disclosed. <br />JR did not regard being locked up as a "Kelly Sympathiser" as a bragging point. <br />A line in the royal commission, relating to the gaoled sympathisers' notes: "Several persons were taken into custody against whom no evidence could be obtained"<br />Evidence from our research depicts a man who got on with his life as best he could, and had many happy times and became respected for his work, but he went into a type of "shutdown" about that period of his life. The fact that this "shutdown" or blockage of discussion could last for so many years, even way after his passing, indicates to us the strength of the impact on him of these events, the respect that the family had for him, and that the events must have been devastatingly tragic, and overwhelming.<br />JR spoke only briefly to his eldest son about the effects the whole saga had on him and the impacts of the whole hugeness (our words)of the events.<br />So, it is really our words that are saying SBC, Glenrowan and Melbourne Goal were horrid events, but something had a big impact on him. We do know that JR and his father wanted to stand up for Ned Kelly in 1881, and went to court for it, and police files that we have read have shown that JR,and the family home was/were sometimes being watched while the outlaws were at large, and were destitute. <br />JR made a reference to a home stable fire of 1886 in some correspondence that he had with a professional board when they asked him why he had not applied for a position earlier-this was many years after the 1886 suspicious stable fire. <br /><br />JR's youngest sons described him as a very holy person!<br /><br />In regards to the Quinn's, we don't recall the Quinn name being listed as living right in Beveridge, or Lake Rowan at the time of our research, but some other's may know more. (Earlier researcher's had Joseph Ryan's mother as being a Quinn?).<br />When trying to buy land some of the recorded sympathiser's were warned that they had to stay away from each other and hence people made their own way in life. <br />We have enjoyed learning more about the early pioneering days of Australia. <br /> We have learned more than we expected from exploring this blog and some other sites<br />With controversial topics it works better for us to write as a small family group.<br /><br />B. T and T. RyanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-50609671410674407952017-07-25T22:42:19.840+10:002017-07-25T22:42:19.840+10:00So I guess the petitions did come from Glenrowan p...So I guess the petitions did come from Glenrowan post office after all, eh?<br /><br />When's the book coming out Boys!<br /><br />Horrienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-25084013665640564252017-07-25T09:03:56.305+10:002017-07-25T09:03:56.305+10:00"JR had long term emotional affects of the ho..."JR had long term emotional affects of the horrid events that evolved at SBC, Glenrowan and Melbourne Gaol,"<br /><br />This sentence interests me. Can the Ryans elaborate on what they mean by this?Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-86079265689005126292017-07-25T08:53:09.816+10:002017-07-25T08:53:09.816+10:00What good books are supposed to do is inform. Barr...What good books are supposed to do is inform. Barry Daddos review is a prefect example of how a person who admits he knew bugger all about the Kelly story can be fed lies and misinformation in a book such as this one and think he has got the basics of the story. This book is not ' an excellent overview" but a propaganda piece which ignores everything thats unpalatable about Ned Kelly, and has had the desired effects on Mr Daddo who now leans " a bit the other way"Deehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14104818673788818740noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-57468991820965816602017-07-25T06:06:43.605+10:002017-07-25T06:06:43.605+10:00Hi Adam, with respect I don't think the Ryans ...Hi Adam, with respect I don't think the Ryans are being "cagey" here at all; I read it as simply following up their family history, which they can do however they like. There is no implication that I can see that they are pushing any kind of barrow. At some point they will inevitably be investigating the links to the Kellys, whatever they were, and may choose to put their findings on the blog. That's the bit that I am hoping to read one day if it happens. <br />In the Fitzpatrick Incident, farmers Hearty and Ryan equally swore Skillion was 4 miles away horse dealing with them in Winton from 5.30pm (O&M, 10 October 1878, 5); but Williamson saw Fitzpatrick speak to Skillion near Kelly’s on his own way back home (around 6pm), VPRS 4969 Unit 1 Item 52.<br />(At the Beechworth Assizes, Ned’s cousin Joseph Ryan swore he had bought a horse from Ned for £17 cash on the 15th. He produced a receipt which he said was written that same evening, thereby placing Ned in the area (Ryan deposition, O&M, 10 October 1878, 5.) That sounds like Joseph was telling porkies in court...Stuart Dawsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-22832942523642512652017-07-24T23:00:53.397+10:002017-07-24T23:00:53.397+10:00The Baumgartens had vineyards but were buyers of s...The Baumgartens had vineyards but were buyers of stolen horses from Ned too. I'm not following the logic of the partly anonymous Ryans at all. Crooks often fabricate an honest living to hide their criminality. <br /><br />I am NOT suggesting for a moment that the Ryans of Lake Rowan were criminal in any way. But despite all their extensive farming and fencing endeavors, they were among several families, neighbours of the Quinns at Wallan, who suspiciously had moved as a group to the North-East according to Morrissey. Their son Joseph was a "known associate of the outlaws", according to police.<br /><br />I'm wishing the modern Ryans the best in their research but also wish they would be a bit less cagey here.Adam Yatesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-51359668346959802012017-07-24T22:44:05.772+10:002017-07-24T22:44:05.772+10:00Thanks Horrie, no doubt your're a decent fella...Thanks Horrie, no doubt your're a decent fella as well. The names on the petitions are names that correspond with selectors at the Karrabumet/Lake Rowan, Bungeet, Broken Creek/Devenish, St. James area during this early 1879 period. The citizens wrote their name and where they came from on the petitions, and we did not see a name with Glenrowan written beside it on either of the two petitions. Some of the names on the petitions were selectors that the Ryan's had known from Beveridge/Wallan Wallan area, who had moved like they did, but not many. Further studies of Community life in this area, from a range of sources, saw these same names come up from time to time, (i.e. Agricultural shows, country horse race meetings, farming matters etc), but we've mainly been researching Joseph Ryan and his parents. The Public Record Office reference records the petitions as being from Lake Rowan, and some newspapers of the time that made note of this development. But, there are other important things in life. We agree that these towns are all quite close to each other.<br /><br />B. T and T RyanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-17556360756864114412017-07-24T21:34:52.738+10:002017-07-24T21:34:52.738+10:00You seem like a nice mob, but I cannot find in my ...You seem like a nice mob, but I cannot find in my copy of the book any mention of the Ryans living at Glenrowan on page 163. It merely says that 2 petitions from about 55 Glenrowan residents for Joseph Ryan were sent in.<br /><br />As you must know, the author on page 43 records that the Ryans were from Lake Rowan. So he does not say they resided at Glenrowan at all. I'll bet that signatories of the two petitions could have included people outside Glenrowan but close enough to it to know of the petitions. I'm familiar with the area. Lake Rowan, in my opinion is very close to Glenrowan.Horrienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-79094960812898862017-07-23T15:43:37.254+10:002017-07-23T15:43:37.254+10:00We realise this is a late edition, but there has ...We realise this is a late edition, but there has been a reference to the ancestor we are researching, and the "Kelly Gang Unmasked" book, and we have not commented on this book before, and we frequently take note of any material from published books making references to our ancestor. So, we have needed to take out time, even though this blog has moved on to another topic.<br /><br />In case anyone is interested, firstly, we respect Mr McFarlane's book, and we have read some of the resources that he references.<br />We acknowledge that they are fascinating resources, and agree that there are gaps in letters and documents.<br /><br />In relation to Joseph Ryan not long in the district, as mentioned above. This aspect was true. Land Record notes record that this Ryan family had resided in Lake Rowan since 1.8.1877, and not Glenrowan as Mr Mc Farlane records on page 163. They were n Beveridge before that time.<br />Which takes us to another area of the book where-'There is evidence that a deliberate migration from Melbourne to the north East had taken place..'<br />Our understanding was that larger acre allotments had just been released at Lake Rowan. Such would be most appealing to growing families than the smaller allotments that were available to them at Beveridge.<br />In relation to cattle and horse stealing- we have evidence of crops grown at Beveridge and wages earned from contacts gained from the Wallan Wallan Road Board, by John and Joseph Ryan<br />Names of contract winners are some of the names listed as of bad character on the Secret List of persons (belonging to criminals classes) holding selections in secluded?? parts of North Eastern Districts- April 1877- Correspondence between the Secretary of the Lands Board and Police Department. Some of these persons may have had crops in as well. The Ryans had had no police record.<br />In regards to the highly efficient organised crime network for the re-distribution of stolen livestock: Speaking just in relation the the family of the ancestor we are familiar with on the border of Lake Rowan, not Glenrowan: farmers of that period worked hard. Improvements on the land had to occur as part of the lease arrangements.<br />By 14.10.1878: 70 chains of chock and log fencing had been erected, and 112 chains of log and brush, with 35 chains for dog lead<br />70 acres were ploughed and cultivated. A 3 room house was erected,and a dam, plus a garden, fenced and cultivated.<br />then, there was another family property nearby to improve:<br />And by 30.8.1880 fencing had developed to: 191 chains of log, and 135 chains of chock and log, and 60 acres under cultivation, two dwellings and a stable. There was much to do on the land. <br /><br />B, T and T. Ryan<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-34964902415396206192017-07-22T08:05:48.174+10:002017-07-22T08:05:48.174+10:00Appreciated Bill. Many angles. The one's we ha...Appreciated Bill. Many angles. The one's we have chosen to focus on we have tediously resourced, documented and time-lined Joseph Ryan and how he was beginning followed while supporting his relatives at a desperate time. And he and his father, John, went to court in Benalla of a matter related to defending them in 1881.<br />The police, and police trackers assisted the Ryan's in 1886 when their stable burnt down. The Ryan's got on with their own Community and Pastoral business for most of their lives.<br /><br />B. T. and T. RyanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-83465021980061886282017-07-22T06:47:56.465+10:002017-07-22T06:47:56.465+10:00That equals 350,000 visitors a year fed total cr*p...That equals 350,000 visitors a year fed total cr*p by amateurs and dribble brainsCameronnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-59351945038330700932017-07-21T23:47:52.078+10:002017-07-21T23:47:52.078+10:00New Holland Publishing should ditch this hopeless ...New Holland Publishing should ditch this hopeless krap before it mangles their brand forever. <br /><br />Dave Blakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-33358991770411622212017-07-21T23:20:34.695+10:002017-07-21T23:20:34.695+10:00Brad is already in deep damage control over his pa...Brad is already in deep damage control over his pathetic new book:<br /><br />http://www.ironoutlaw.com/books/<br /><br />Scroll down to see this nonsense:<br /><br />Like most Australians, I know about Ned Kelly and his gang’s exploits without really knowing too much of the detail about what drove him to do what he did. And, probably like most Australians, that’s about as far as I’ve ever delved until I came across Brad Webb’s book.<br /><br />I found this to be a thoroughly enjoyable and easily readable book, with a large number of photographs and illustrations that certainly I’d never seen before adding to the overall telling of the story.<br /><br />This is an approachable book that provides some in-depth detail but at the same time doesn’t get bogged down in that detail, allowing the book to move along at pace and to keep the reader engaged. The ‘Did you know…’ breakouts in the book are particularly enjoyable and add colour and rounding to the overall story of the Ned Kelly and his gang.<br /><br />To be sure, Kelly is a polarising figure. A quick look at the comments areas on websites such as Brad Webb’s IronOutlaw.com and others devoted to Kelly show that he’s clearly revered and reviled in equal measure by those on either side of the argument with little middle ground. As a largely disinterested and uninvested observer this has always amused me; that there’s a sub-culture of people who’d seemingly happily have their very own shoot-out to settle things once and for all.<br /><br />I see this book as an excellent overview of Kelly that allows for the Kelly Gang novice to reach a decision point, to create a lauchpad for more detailed reading on Kelly or to allow the reader to be satisfied that they now know much more than they did before they opened the book. I’ll admit that I’d always leaned on the ‘horse thief’ side of the argument but after having read the book I find myself leaning a bit the other way now. And isn’t that what good books are supposed to do, make you think and address your own preconceptions?<br /><br />Barry Daddo<br /><br />(Barry sounds like a desperate Brad trying to save his book. Go on, Brad, introduce us to the r e a l Barry Daddo).<br /><br /><br />Dee, your blistering review is now up on the web too.Jim Ledburynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-204108475387018772017-07-21T20:01:39.762+10:002017-07-21T20:01:39.762+10:00Yes Bill. We have tediously worked towards profess...Yes Bill. We have tediously worked towards professional practice when sourcing references for our family history focus that we chose to explore. <br />And there have been "back tracks" along the way when a new piece of information directed us to re-assess certain periods.<br />There are always gaps that only those who lived during that period would be able to explain. The gems along the way have made it all worthwhile.<br /><br />B. T. and T RyanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-49955068806349880522017-07-21T19:49:24.482+10:002017-07-21T19:49:24.482+10:00Agreed Bill. There is stuff in the Kelly Gang Unma...Agreed Bill. There is stuff in the Kelly Gang Unmasked book about the Ryans of Lake Rowan. Standish report unfavourably about young Joseph Ryan, not long in the district but "a known associate of the outlaws" who had deliberately committed perjury st the trial of Mrs Kelly by denying his family connection to the Kellys "which he subsequently admitted under cross-examination".Horrienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-17814411895312597312017-07-21T11:56:24.930+10:002017-07-21T11:56:24.930+10:00Hello B T and T,
Thank you for the interesting inf...Hello B T and T,<br />Thank you for the interesting information. <br />Its obvious there are always angles that official history fails to mention, yet its always to be in black and white, but true history is never quite like that.<br />Billhttp://www.ironicon.com.aunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-41032196806065517712017-07-20T23:56:44.414+10:002017-07-20T23:56:44.414+10:00I'm gonna demand a refund from Brad. His book ...I'm gonna demand a refund from Brad. His book isn't as described. The illustrations are old hat. So was his narrative. What a rotten farce. I don't want him to have my honestly earned money.Dave Blakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-41894594667466225382017-07-20T21:33:03.316+10:002017-07-20T21:33:03.316+10:00For anyone who might be interested.
Mr Edward (E...For anyone who might be interested. <br /><br />Mr Edward (Edmund) Kelly, John (Red) Kelly's slightly younger brother had some land in Beveridge in October, 1863. His obituary-1901, stated that he had made some money in the Goldfields, before he lost it all again speculating. Maybe he supported some of his younger sister, Ann Kelly/Ryan's, mobility to visit her sister in law in Avenel. Maybe, he supported his sister in law, Ellen, at some stage as well? Though we have no evidence of this!<br /><br />Mr.Edward/Edmund Kelly, however, was living with the Ryan's at Lake Rowan when their stable burnt to a crisp in 1886 (with two beautiful horses involved). Edmund's obituary noted that he had spent a good many years living in the Lake Rowan area, and that he was a farm labourer. (Anne Kelly/Ryan, and John had a farm there for many years). Joseph Ryan and his partner had cared for uncle Edmund for his last year of life in NSW, after he went to visit and ended up staying.<br /><br />The two names mentioned above, (Mr. John Houston-JP, and Mr Thomas Wall- school teacher and farm selector),as supporters of John,and Ann Kelly/Ryan's correspondence to the Lands Department were also the two citizens who organised and sent the two petitions in January 1879 to pray for the release of Joseph Ryan as a gaoled sympathiser under Section 5 of the Outlawry Act. Mr.Thomas Wall taught Ryan children in both Beveridge and Bungeet.<br /><br />B. T. And T. RyanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-36761008574752281252017-07-20T14:45:21.219+10:002017-07-20T14:45:21.219+10:00I'm sure the family histories are interesting ...I'm sure the family histories are interesting to those involved and to some of those descended (although I have practically no interest in my own beyond the ones I have actually met and their immediate parents), so will bow out of this area at this point!Stuart Dawsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-58772044986080568242017-07-20T09:06:15.162+10:002017-07-20T09:06:15.162+10:00Thank you Stuart and yes I was aware of the J T co...Thank you Stuart and yes I was aware of the J T connection to that appalling TV series Dallas. I was just a bit mystified as to the identity of the JR mentioned by B.T. and T.Ryan and also the research they are carrying out. All a bit cryptic to me.Brian Tatenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-92216566674878475652017-07-19T23:15:49.882+10:002017-07-19T23:15:49.882+10:00Sorry, a bit late. Meant to write-
Owing to the d...Sorry, a bit late. Meant to write- <br />Owing to the documents <br />John Ryan gave to the Lands Department.<br /><br />B. T. and T RyanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2798312463652733622.post-34426356565290086332017-07-19T22:04:58.618+10:002017-07-19T22:04:58.618+10:00Hello Mr Dawson. We did respond yesterday, but not...Hello Mr Dawson. We did respond yesterday, but not published. Now, in response to your 19.7.17 comment:<br />WE have read that "Fords of Katandra" post,a dn while we initially found it very interesting, our research did not correspondent with all of this story.<br />Firstly, we have seen John Ryan (Edward Kelly's Aunt Ann Ryan's husband) referred to as Jack Ryan and to some people maybe he may have been known. In all written B. D. and Marriage documents he is always John. His obituary- John, in all his correspondence to the Lands Department-John (some written and witnessed by a Mr Houston, or earlier when in Beveridge (mid-1860's- 1877)-written by teacher and publican Thomas Wall who wrote John Ryan, as John Ryan could only make his mark). Ann Kelly/Ryan could write her name though.Owning to the documents John Ryan gave to he and Department, he wrote that he had spent approx 12 years in Beveridge, so, the Avenel period of this Jack Ryan partner of Ann Kelly/Ryan is a mystery to us<br />Our Government record research has the Ellen Kelly v Ann Kelly case as Case 20 on 19.2.1867. We are not sure if this is our Ann Kelly/Ryan, as rates in Beveridge were being paid during this period. And the other case, we have as:28.5.1867-Thomas Ford v Ellen Kelly and Thomas Ford v Ann Kelly (not clearly written, and the newspaper item of this court case does not link with this Ann Kelly as being a grown woman- describing the person as daughter of... In May 1867, Ann Kelly/Ryan would have been very pregnant, and not sure if she would have been wealthy enough to be paying rent in two locations- both Beveridge and Avenel.<br /><br />Two of us are old enough to have love Dallas, though Dynasty was better!<br /><br />B.T. and T.RyanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com